Isn't This An Oxymoron?

[mweiss]

You want to debate somebody about the merits of more consessions? DEBATE ME! Or are you afraid to because you can't hold my job in your hand? I mean what can you do to me? Confiscate my FF miles?

Or, better yet uza, debate me! You can't even confiscate my Dividend Miles because I have none!

The real irony here is many posters on USaviation would agree that I am no fan of unions. But I still would debate you under the table if you're willing. How's about it?

 

[USA320Pilot]

The issue I have with the "saving the profession" thought is how do US Airways' F/A's wages, benefits, and retirement compare to LCC or RJ F/As wages, benefits, and retirement?

Can US Airways or any other company have a labor cost structure greater than its competiton and still compete?

I'm not picking on our F/A's who are some of the best in the business, but the same thing holds true for my work group or for that matter any other work group.

From a cost accounting perspective it's difficult in a business with razor thin margins to have out of line costs, whether its IT, advertising, landing fees, or labor expense.

For the company to survive we may all have to make some tough choices or we could fail.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

"The issue I have with the "saving the profession" thought is how do US Airways' F/A's wages, benefits, and retirement compare to LCC or RJ F/As wages, benefits, and retirement?

Can US Airways or any other company have a labor cost structure greater than its competiton and still compete?"

Is this the continuing "lowering of the bar"? First it was Southwest's cost structure, then JetBlue"s, and now the RJ's. As I said over a month ago, if management chooses not to address the non-labor side of the equation, we will all be working for express wages before this company is competitive.

Jim

 

[UseYourHead]

"My focus should not be on whether the company survives, but on whether the employees can survive financially with any further concessions," she said. "I take the position that I want to maintain the integrity of the profession, the salaries and the quality of life at all costs."

From my perspective, if the Company does not survive, than the integrity of the profession, the salaries, and the quality of life for all US Airways flight attendants will be gone.

So, what is it? Does Teddy want the Company to survive or is she more interested in the integrity of the profession, the salaries and the quality of life for all flight attendants? If it is the latter, when did she appoint herself the savior for flight attendants at other airlines? I have no doubt the other airlines are applauding her efforts, in hopes that US Airways will disappear from the playing field. Too bad it will be her membership that will need to "fall on the sword" for the good of the profession.

Lindy

I hate to break the news to everyone, but here comes a fact: All legacy carriers labor costs will come down dramatically; therefore, the concept that by labor here at Airways "holding the line" we will in someway stop this trend, is a fallacy. Oh the other airlines would just love tosee us hasten our own demise, and the vast majority of us will not even be graced with an interview at the surviving carriers (if you don’t believe that, then start applying now to find out what your chances are-while your at it, apply at the places you think will be your next career too).

We are just the first in-line to have this on our plates, it will also happen at DAL, NWA, etc.

Look around out there at the job market, and compare what you'll pull down here with what’s out there for you...ya I know, PITBull and others are looking forward to a year vacation collecting unemployment...sad really, that anyone could aspire to such a goal....

What is happening here is a no-brainer, read the newspaper, we are not alone, nor is our airline, or even our industry. It is time to profitably compete, or this place is going away. Is it all labor…NO; however, we are a part of the equation, like it or not….

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Everyone, let's face it, the way management continues to deal with the employee groups is 99% the reason/cause for the hostilities. Perhaps, if they dealt in good faith maybe people wouldn't be so angry and subsequently less cooperative when help is needed. Praise and recognition of a job well done does far more for good will than treating people like renegade high schoolers. For example, is it really necessary to ask a 50 year old employee, who rarely calls in sick, to get a doctor's note when they have the flu? Is it right to break a contract left and right? What does management expect from the workforce it disrespects so often? I am constantly amazed by how poorly this company runs it's most important asset: the employees.

 

[mweiss]

Praise and recognition of a job well done does far more for good will than treating people like renegade high schoolers.

Ya know, I thought so too until I had this airline employee PMing me telling me what a fool I was for believing that. He said it's all about the money. "Pay me more," was all he wanted. Didn't care about respect.

Go figure.

 

[wings396]

Maybe an easy translation would be, If we are cut to poverty level wages...who cares if the company survives. Let's get real here folks, If you are going to earn
Wal-Mart wages, you may as well work there!!! You can only give so much and after you have been beaten back 20+ years in wages, it is not worth it anymore.
I do believe that this is what Managment wants.....All of the senior people out the door in discust, and a high turnover of new hires that never reach top scale no matter how low it may be.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

True,
Plus, it seems that all the labor unions need do to correct this is allow a couple of "biggies" to go out of business. Then there would be enough business for everyone, at least temporarily. Everybody over 50 would essentially be done in this industry. Sometimes I believe that this is the goal of the current White house and their congressional cronies. What they fail to realize about the "lowering of the bar", wagewise throughout US economy is that it leaves folks unable to purchase the goods and services that keep the US economy afloat in the first place. The US economy sucks right now, and the "spin doctors" are doing all they can to make it look pretty for the upcoming election. This "ugliness" we see here is prevalent in MANY US industries, from telecom, where jobs are going overseas in hundreds of thousands at a time, to high tech, where US jobs are being replaced by kids in China and Korea. :blink:

 

[repeet]

oldiebutgoody
Posted on Mar 22 2004, 10:30 AM

The US economy sucks right now, and the "spin doctors" are doing all they can to make it look pretty for the upcoming election.

Absolutely, ask yourself, do I bring home as much as I did four years ago?

Fix the econony, or we'll find someone who will!

 

[ITRADE]

I do. I also don't shuck out several hundred dollars a year in union dues.

 

[uza]

The employees need to ask themselves what do they want. Do they want lower wages and benefits or no job at all?

Does unemployment look all that good at only 26 weeks duration without healthcare?

What will you accomplish by refusing to give the company a chance at survival beside the one second self realization that you won, but then, duh, you are unemployed in a bad job market environment?

If it is so great out there, why are you all sticking around torturing yourselves putting up with all the so-called abuse?

Where does rationality fit into the equation?

Do you really believe standing tough will make you a winner?

What change will be brought about with this hard nosed stand?

Look deep into yourselves and make sure you are reasoning with reality and not just some feel good delusion that you got caught up in with all the chanting of no more givebacks. People on here are saying they can’t afford another cut, then how can you afford zero wages and benefits?

Do you have two degrees and can walk away from your job?

All these questions I presented here are a paradox in logic that certain union leaders would call the correct direction for you to take and are good for you and your loved ones. Do you agree?

It’s time to get real and stop this pep rally of destruction. Now is not the right time for this company to go away if you really need a job or want a job in this industry.

You are stuck with the management that you have, deal with it, or die with it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

ITRADE,

For some of us it is several hundred dollars a MONTH.

Jim

 

[ITRADE]

ITRADE,

For some of us it is several hundred dollars a MONTH.

Jim

Several hundred more?

 

[uza]

Why are certain people still talking in the third person?

Paranoid delusion or stratagem meant to fool?

 

[BoeingBoy]

ITRADE,

I meant that dues are several hundred a month - sorry, I wasn't very clear.