Is This Going To Be The Future?

Checking it Out

Veteran
Apr 3, 2003
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Here is some intesting comments found on the-mechanic.net



What is in store for the future?

We have seen in the last several years a fundamental change in the way the airlines are viewing the maintenance of the Aircraft. With the airline passenger paying less for a ticket and the airlines looking for ways to slash costs. The trend will be to continue to reduce maintenance costs.

A couple of ways has been to lower wages and benefits by challenging the unions or increase the outsourcing of work. Amfa has chosen to allow the increase in outsourcing by inserting language in their contracts and not putting up a fight to stop the trend. The TWU on the other hand has seen fit to lower wages and benefits to stay in line with the average wages within the industry and in turn has been able to keep the language in tact along with working aggressively to keep work in-house.

Which way is correct? If you ask a 20-year mechanic he will say higher wages. If you ask a 5-year mechanic he will indicate lower wages with steady employment is the better way to go. If you ask Amfa they like to compare the NW contract as superior in wages, while approaching the 50% mark on layoffs there is little chance of ever working at NW. If you look at AA the TWU has chosen to keep layoffs at below 15% with lower wages and an opportunity for future employment. The TWU has more experience in representing the best interest of the membership, while Amfa is better at organizing.

The Airlines are going thru some turbulent times and are trying to find a medium where they can sustain profitability and long-term survival ship. Is this going to mean more pressure will be applied to reduce cost? In my opinion yes!

Here is my opinion of what this means to you?

*At NW you will see a steady decline of maintenance and employees in the next couple of years to where the maintenance bases will close and the head count will be around 1500 mechanics. Amfa has been unable to stop the trend as NW continues to shift work to 3rd party maintenance here and overseas. (Note current employment is 5250+/- down from 9700 in 2000. source Jan.2004 seniority list)


*At United with the new contract and recent talks of spinning maintenance off. You will see a steady decline of employees in maintenance to around 2500. With unlimited scope language, the new 2 billion dollar contract on engines and the closing of the maintenance bases this will take place in short order. (Note current employment is 8400 +/- down from 13,200 less than 2 years ago, source Amfa)

*At American the trend is to take advantage of the outsourcing frenzy and work at controlling labor costs and going after 3rd party maintenance. Will AA be able to capitalize on this? The stock market believes they will. Time will definitely tell. (Note current employment is approx.17,000 thousand)

You have a choice! Amfa has openly admitted the scope clause in the AA/TWU contract is worthless. If they are successful at calling for an election and get in, you will see a gradual shifting of AA philosophy and a steady increase of work outsourced. At the rate NW and United is losing employees the 17,000 employees at AA could be 4000 in 5 years. Don’t be fooled into believing Amfa is the way to go. The track record speaks for itself.

Have you tried lately to get hired at one of the majors? It takes an average of 8 months at Southwest. With 1800 mechanics, majority of heavy maintenance outsourced and as competition increases hiring will slow. USAir continues to have problems and is looking for more concessions and additional layoffs. If Delta is unable to get its costs under control you will see some major changes in the future.

As 3rd party maintenance continues to grow in popularity you will see a steady increase in this sector. The wages and benefits are normally 50% of what the majors pay. This is where you will end up if you continue to support Amfa and fall over the 4000 mark. You need to ask yourself if this is the right choice when you sign a card. I ask that you look at the facts presented over the last couple of years and you will see the TWU is the best choice in representing you!


Proud member of the TWU, In Solidarity
 
Again?

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*At United with the new contract and recent talks of spinning maintenance off. You will see a steady decline of employees in maintenance to around 2500. With unlimited scope language, the new 2 billion dollar contract on engines and the closing of the maintenance bases this will take place in short order. (Note current employment is 8400 +/- down from 13,200 less than 2 years ago, source Amfa)
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Thank you IAM!!!
IMC & OAK already closed under the watchful eye of the AFL-CIO IAM.
We never insourced v2500 engines. IAM watched it being outsourced since
the introduction of the first A320 in 1993.
Stick to the facts.

:spam: UT
 
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  • #5
UAL, I don't understand your post? You are adding or changing things?


Amfaman, This is a prediction from what I understand and from what has been done in the last couple of years I can see this might be the trend.

Is this going to be what we have to look forward to?
 
Checking it Out said:
UAL, I don't understand your post? You are adding or changing things?


Amfaman, This is a prediction from what I understand and from what has been done in the last couple of years I can see this might be the trend.

Is this going to be what we have to look forward to?
Not sure what your saying, I'm asking where the 17,000 that you stated came from, seniority list total 14,000. The twu must of lost 3,000 jobs.
 
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Amfaman, all the members under the TWU umbrella are members, Just because they are not actively employed does not mean they are not represented. And with the language in tact it means they will be empolyed in the future. The TWU has retained the full overhaul capabilities at AA.

The group you are representing will soon change this if they were ever able to get in.
 
Checking it Out said:
Amfaman, all the members under the TWU umbrella are members, Just because they are not actively employed does not mean they are not represented. And with the language in tact it means they will be empolyed in the future. The TWU has retained the full overhaul capabilities at AA.

The group you are representing will soon change this if they were ever able to get in.
This has to be the best one yet!

When AMFA members are laid-off due to the use of force majeure, and a large number are still awaiting FM-2 Decision, then they have been "decimated", according to CIO.

But when it is TWU members who lost their job security protection via without further ratification RIF, then they are NOT decimated, they are just "currently uunemployed".

What "language is in tact" CIO? You moved the system protection date backwards to 9/24/98, and your union can still move that date further without any further ratification.

Members are already being re-called to NWA employment, and all I see is TWU members being utlilized and surplused from shop to shop, dock to dock, without regards to seniority or qualifications.

I also notice that when you speak of AMFA job lost, you use retirements, voluntary furloughs, deaths, terminations, and any other BS you can muster.

But when we speak of the headcount reduction at AA, you only want to disccuss RIF's.

Why don't you pull your out and hold your own union to the same standards that you challenge AMFA on?

Better yet, why don't you just continue your deceptive tactics, and we will ignore your ignorance as we remove your sorry asses from the bargaining and enforcement functions. :shock:
 
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Members are already being re-called to NWA employment, and all I see is TWU members being utlilized and surplused from shop to shop, dock to dock, without regards to seniority or qualifications. ( note movement is different than layoffs) I thought I would just mention this!

Please post where members are returning, news article please! amfa has a letter posted on their web site that shows a decrease in head count compared to your site! And the report from NW shows 2/3rds of the heavy checklines are outsourced.

Or are you using the arbitration case from PDX as an example?
 
Checking it Out said:
Members are already being re-called to NWA employment, and all I see is TWU members being utlilized and surplused from shop to shop, dock to dock, without regards to seniority or qualifications. ( note movement is different than layoffs) I thought I would just mention this!

Please post where members are returning, news article please! amfa has a letter posted on their web site that shows a decrease in head count compared to your site! And the report from NW shows 2/3rds of the heavy checklines are outsourced.

Or are you using the arbitration case from PDX as an example?
Is our head count going up, staying the same or continuing to go down? I know that they have not been replacing those that retire or quit. So arent we still losing jobs if they are not replacing those who are lost through attrition?
 
Checking it Out said:
The group you are representing will soon change this if they were ever able to get in.
Even if your lie was correct, soon would mean 2009 or later because of the twu's negotiating power has us locked in until then. :shock: :shock:
 
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Actually our contract has an oppurtunity to be amendable in 2006, so where are you getting your date? If the economy turns good we will be asking for the contract to be opened.

Bob, you know the answer better than I, The members have been told repeatedly we will have a steady work force. I also know of several who have been re-employed as spots come available. Don't be surprised if you will be working on NW or United Airplanes in the future. The work is their for the taking.
 
Checking it Out said:
Actually our contract has an oppurtunity to be amendable in 2006, so where are you getting your date? If the economy turns good we will be asking for the contract to be opened.
Oh yeah the opener, can we file for mediation and a release under this opener prior to the amendable date of the contract which would be the last day of 2008.
 
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*At NW you will see a steady decline of maintenance and employees in the next couple of years to where the maintenance bases will close and the head count will be around 1500 mechanics. Amfa has been unable to stop the trend as NW continues to shift work to 3rd party maintenance here and overseas. (Note current employment is 5250+/- down from 9700 in 2000. source Jan.2004 seniority list)

Do you know, amfa at AA is reporting this on their web site:

AMFA wins election at United Airlines, that makes 8 Airlines and over 20,000 Mechanics that AMFA now represents it’s time for AA Mechanics to join the revolution,

Amfa National is reporting this:

Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) represents over 18,000 technicians for United, Northwest, Southwest, Alaska, ATA, Atlantic Coast, Mesaba, and Horizon Airlines. AMFA is an independent union and is not affiliated with the AFL-CIO. For more information visit their website at www.amfanatl.org. AMFA’s credo is “Safety in the air begins with quality maintenance on the groundâ€￾

Their is a drop of 2000 members in the last few months, Is this the direction you wish to Be associated with? Amfa organizers write on this board that members are being recalled! Who is lying to who?

Don't be fooled by the deception and lies that continue!!!!!!!!!
 

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