Important MEC Code-a-Phone - Jan 24th

[BottomFeeder]

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On 1/25/2003 12:03:30 PM us10 wrote:

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On 1/25/2003 11:34:20 AM real world wrote:


Two questions based on the Code-A-Phone statement:

"the MEC required that a confidential side letter be executed by the Company that legally obligated it to provide funding for pension benefits to pilots in the event the pilot pension plan was terminated"

Does this not constitute an agreement?


"We do not believe that alternatives being pursued by the Company at this time would prevent pilots from losing a substantial part of the benefits that they have earned"

So then what is the problem?
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You left out the last three words of the your cited quote.The words; "by the PBGC" should have been included.The side letter did not cover a company requested termination or a joint company/ALPA requested termination.
If the PBGC should step in and terminate the plan ALPA wanted some protection.

Please re-read the second of your quotes.If you still can't see the problem, well, I don't think I can help you.
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RealWorld,

You appear to be very informed on these matters.

What do you think of us10's answer?

Are the numbers in the MEC memo correct?

If this memo is correct. They do have a good point. The numbers do speak louder than words.


THEY WANT A TRUSTED LEADER

 

[mlt]

On December 13, prior to ratifying the Supplemental Cost Reductions agreement, the MEC required that a confidential side letter be executed by the Company that [STRONG]legally obligated it to provide funding for pension benefits to pilots in the event the pilot pension plan was terminated by the PBGC[/STRONG]. [BR][BR]From my observation point:[BR][BR]ALPA was complicit in an attempt to defraud the federal government and the American taxpayers. Their counterpart -in true TV Courtroom drama- unexpectedly turned on them. Being the mature boys and girls they are, they 'creatively figured' the figures and now cry 'foul'.[BR][BR]Grab your gas mask, the stench permeating the air from the sewer may be lethal.

 

[chipmunn]

Three points:

1. Roy Freundlich said, "As this issue progresses please do not allow it to affect in any way your duties as flight crewmembers or the operation of the airline. It is imperative to our success that our airline’s operations remain reliable and stable. Any job actions are illegal and expose all of us to significant liabilities and to the failure of our efforts to preserve our jobs and our pensions. This is of the utmost importance and must be taken seriously and sincerely by all crewmembers."

Chip asks: Slam&Click and Savvy, are you going to inform the higest levels of the company about Roy's comments concerning pilot distraction?

2. ALPA and the Company met during the past two days regarding the pilot pension issue and there is reason to believe, if an agreement is reached between the parties, certain employees/employee groups may not be happy with the result, especially considering the recent code-a-phone message.

3. I find it interesting how people can insult others, be derogatory, or lack decorum and not have the courage to identify them self. This speaks volumes about the sender.

Chip

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[BR][BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/25/2003 135 PM mlt wrote: [BR][BR]On December 13, prior to ratifying the Supplemental Cost Reductions agreement, the MEC required that a confidential side letter be executed by the Company that [STRONG]legally obligated it to provide funding for pension benefits to pilots in the event the pilot pension plan was terminated by the PBGC[/STRONG]. [BR][BR]From my observation point:[BR][BR]ALPA was complicit in an attempt to defraud the federal government and the American taxpayers. Their counterpart -in true TV Courtroom drama- unexpectedly turned on them. Being the mature boys and girls they are, they 'creatively figured' the figures and now cry 'foul'.[BR][BR]Grab your gas mask, the stench permeating the air from the sewer may be lethal.----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]I sense mlt is another that is disappointed with their position on the socio-economic ladder, wishing to share their pain. I hardly think that protecting one's position through specific documentation is in any way defrauding anybody. Anyone that doesn't get the "fine print" spelled out in something other than "lawyer speak" is doing themselves (and in ALPA's case their contituents) a serious disservice. I'll bet management really hates it when the "help" is smart enough to call their bluff. That's my observation point. If the company did this and didn't disclose it to the appropriate parties, it's their hot potato.

 

[chipmunn]

Bob:

Bob Owens said: "Good luck guys, and to all the other workers who do not want to support the pilots, remember, your pension is next."

Chip comments: Bob, in the past I have disagreed with you, but this time I do not. There is reason to believe without an agreement satisfactory to ALPA, your comments could be accurate.

Again, as I have said before it's in everybody's best interest for a mutually acceptable agreement between ALPA and the company regarding the pilot pension issue.

Chip

 

[nvrsaynvr]

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On 1/25/2003 3:06:16 PM chipmunn wrote:

Three points:

1. Roy Freundlich said, "As this issue progresses please do not allow it to affect in any way your duties as flight crewmembers or the operation of the airline. It is imperative to our success that our airline’s operations remain reliable and stable. Any job actions are illegal and expose all of us to significant liabilities and to the failure of our efforts to preserve our jobs and our pensions. This is of the utmost importance and must be taken seriously and sincerely by all crewmembers."

Chip asks: Slam&Click and Savvy, are you going to inform the higest levels of the company about Roy's comments concerning pilot distraction?

2. ALPA and the Company met during the past two days regarding the pilot pension issue and there is reason to believe, if an agreement is reached between the parties, certain employees/employee groups may not be happy with the result, especially considering the recent code-a-phone message.

3. I find it interesting how people can insult others, be derogatory, or lack decorum and not have the courage to identify them self. This speaks volumes about the sender.

Chip


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[/blockquote]
Chip, anyone who collects their wage is obligated to perform their duty, and I believe there is not one of us that does not know this. To what level of "professionalism" do you suppose Roy is speaking? Surely any group of emplyees that deserve the respect, adoration, admiration, and acquiescence of other groups, don't need to be told to fulfill their obligations in a fashion such as he pleads for?

You go ahead and post your name all you wish, I am satisfied to post my position of interest as events unfold. I have no desire for noteriety here.

Your inference that somehow your group might influence a decision by the company to negatively affect my pension is, in my opinion, simply an attempt to offend. Your group is responsible for the unbearable burden that is causing our current dilemma. I hope there is a solution worked out that is both satisfactory and as fair as possible, and also my hope is that the pilots group has less arrogance than would demand I help support a "no loss" pension plan for you, by suffering a loss for myself. While you and yours are stomping the floor, frothing and fretting; you might remember those of our employees who do not have even 28k salaries, much less pensions. I suggest you also remember the advise you preached to the IAM and others and recite it to your own ALPA group. Also, good luck in your new job and may you get to enjoy it soon.

 

[Todd B]

Lets get back on the topic.

 

[savyinvestor]

Oldie, I see your attacking someone else now. They must have disagreed with your position. Remember you won't make any new friends that way and it appears you don't have too many to begin with. Tick, tock, Savy

 

[Slam&Click]

[blockquote]
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On 1/25/2003 3:06:16 PM chipmunn wrote:

Chip asks: Slam&Click, are you going to inform the higest[sic] levels of the company about Roy's comments concerning pilot distraction?

Chip
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Please reference the original thread and re-read my reply to your original query. To comment further would be superfluous.

 

[savyinvestor]

Captain Munn, Roy's words were given in a different tone with no implication of a hidden agenda. With all due respect, at this point, I could care less what you find interesting. I do hope you get what you deserve and not at the expense of fellow employees. Savy

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/25/2003 4:27:40 PM savyinvestor wrote: [BR][BR]Oldie, I see your attacking someone else now. They must have disagreed with your position. Remember you won't make any new friends that way and it appears you don't have too many to begin with. Tick, tock, Savy----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]With friends like you two...I don't think I even need to finish that. Oh, did you see the article on MSNBC about the PBGC being something like 8 BILLION dollars in the red due to failed pensions. From companies that did exactly what you want U to do, dump their pensions on the taxpayers. Now, when you get your tax increase (or less of the GWB tax "decrease") you can thank guys like yourself for passing the pain to everybody, instead of making managements live up to their obligations. Maybe if U goes under, I could sell insurance. That might take me half a day to learn...Naah, It might make me bitter....By the way, it's hardly an attack, especially when the weapon is wit and knowledge and the opponent is undefended...

 

[Cory]

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On 1/25/2003 4:29:18 PM Todd B wrote:

Lets get back on the topic.
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Todd B:

You beat me to it! I can't believe the comments on a couple of these threads. It's obvious, with this pension thing, that management is trying to divide and conquer. From what I've been reading here, they are succeeding admirably! It wouldn't suprise me if there were management types signing in here to "stir the pot". They're probably giggling the whole time they're typing. Don't you people realize that your playing right into their hands? If the company is successful in terminating the pilots pension plan, how long do you think the plans for the IAM and AFA will last? The last time I looked, about 3500 people were reading these two threads. I wonder what kind of impression they have of US Airways employees!

 

[real world]

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On 1/25/2003 5:15:25 PM Cory wrote:

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On 1/25/2003 4:29:18 PM Todd B wrote:

Lets get back on the topic.
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[/blockquote]
Todd B:

You beat me to it! I can't believe the comments on a couple of these threads. It's obvious, with this pension thing, that management is trying to divide and conquer. From what I've been reading here, they are succeeding admirably! It wouldn't suprise me if there were management types signing in here to "stir the pot". They're probably giggling the whole time they're typing. Don't you people realize that your playing right into their hands? If the company is successful in terminating the pilots pension plan, how long do you think the plans for the IAM and AFA will last? The last time I looked, about 3500 people were reading these two threads. I wonder what kind of impression they have of US Airways employees!
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Nothing could be further from the truth Management has no intent to divide and conquer. It serves no purpose to alienate employee groups, the damage this does is far greater than any potential negotiation benifit.

 

[A320 Driver]

 

[A320 Driver]

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