If the Oregon militiamen were Muslim or black, they'd probably be dead by now

[Glenn Quagmire]

The same guys who forget food.

The guy who has 6 kids and has taken a half million from the federal government is complaining about them taking too much from someone other than him, who does not want his "help."

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Surrounding an unoccupied building in a wildlife sanctuary that even the wildlife have been abandoning hardly meets the intent of sedition...Try reading all the facts on how FWS have tried to squeeze out the ranch owners, and you start to see some abuses of power by the government.Certainly, a backfire or prescribed burn don't qualify as arson unless the government was just looking for a way to retaliate.If a private landowner had failed to maintain land in a way that caused damage to a neighboring property, there'd be a civil case for damages and liability, not a criminal proceeding. The only exception to that would be if it caused someone else's death, which might result in a manslaughter charge.

Says the guy who has proclaimed the Obama slippery slope argument.

Which federal buildings and property should they be allowed to take over?

And yes, I have read the case law and briefs on this. The lower courts erred, and were correctly overturned.

 

[townpete]

Says the guy who has proclaimed the Obama slippery slope argument.

Which federal buildings and property should they be allowed to take over?

And yes, I have read the case law and briefs on this. The lower courts erred, and were correctly overturned.

 
I seriously doubt it, rather you believe your favorite LWNJ low rent blog, Salon, Raw Story, etc, etc, etc

 

[Kev3188]

What's The Blaze have to say about all of this? How about Red State? Ethan Krupp?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I seriously doubt it, rather you believe your favorite LWNJ low rent blog, Salon, Raw Story, etc, etc, etc

I anxiously await your legal opinion on how the lower court sentence on the arson charge should have been upheld.

 

[Kev3188]

It'll involve a burning rake and Sideshow Bob...

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

"Resentenced to Five Years in Prison

EUGENE, Ore. Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.

A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012. The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.

The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out Strike Anywhere matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to light up the whole country on fire. One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire...."

"...By law, arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence. When the Hammonds were originally sentenced, they argued that the five-year mandatory minimum terms were unconstitutional and the trial court agreed and imposed sentences well below what the law required based upon the jurys verdicts. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, however, upheld the federal law, reasoning that given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense. The court vacated the original, unlawful sentences and ordered that the Hammonds be resentenced in compliance with the law. In March 2015, the Supreme Court rejected the Hammonds petitions for certiorari. Today, Chief Judge Aiken imposed five year prison terms on each of the Hammonds, with credit for time they already served.

We all know the devastating effects that are caused by wildfires. Fires intentionally and illegally set on public lands, even those in a remote area, threaten property and residents and endanger firefighters called to battle the blaze stated Acting U.S. Attorney Billy Williams.

Congress sought to ensure that anyone who maliciously damages United States property by fire will serve at least 5 years in prison. These sentences are intended to be long enough to deter those like the Hammonds who disregard the law and place fire fighters and others in jeopardy.


http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison"]

The actual case is available on law sites. I am sure townpete has access to them.

The depositions and witness testimony are telling. Note that it was a local Oregon jury.

 

[Hatu]

Its a much bigger issue than Oregon.
They are probably making a point over the Fed taking land from range owners, fair exchange is no robbery......I doubt its right....you won't win against the Fed, even when innocent.
 
Do you support the land grabs across the west by a BLM sometimes running rampant using EPA like tactics?
 
One of those farmers, maybe Bundy, lost land to a Harry Reid pipe dream for a
solar power venture, which, I'm sure he had his hand in.
 
Who would you trust more, those occupying that fed facility or the ones occupying the fed facility at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

How far back you wanna go?

The men took over the wildlife refuge headquarters, saying they would stay until the land was returned to who they consider its owners, the 100 or so ranchers and farmers who worked the land as far back as 1900.

"We are exercising our constitutional rights. We won't leave until these lands have been turned over to the their rightful owners," Bundy said. "More than 100 ranchers and farmers used to work this land, which was taken illegally by the federal government."

But, and it is a big BUT:

The leaders of the Burns Paiute tribe have a message for the men and women who have taken over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge outside Burns, Oregon: "Go home. We don't want you here."

The message came from several tribe members whose ancestors fought and died over portions of that land long before the ranchers and farmers had it, long before the federal government even existed.

Members of the tribe are descendants of the Wadatika band of northern Paiutes. Their history in the area dates back 9,000 years ago, the tribe says.

The tribe said it has never ceded its right to the land but received federal recognition in 1868 and signed a treaty with the federal government that requires it to protect the safety of the natives and promised to prosecute any crime or injury perpetrated by any white man upon them.

Fast forward to 1879 after the treaty was signed. The Paiutes say their people were "loaded into wagons and ordered to walk under heavy guard" in knee-deep snow and forced off their land on foot.

"They literally walked our people, children and women off our lands. They had no problem killing us," Kennedy said.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/06/us/native-tribe-blasts-oregon-takeover/index.html

 

[Ifly2]

"Both cases emerged out of the first Sagebrush Rebellion of the early 20th century. Western livestock, mineral and timber interests had exploded in anger at the re-designation of portions of the public domain into the national forests and the regulations that the newly created Forest Service enacted on grazing, mining and logging. What changed was that ranchers, miners and loggers were required to pay a small fee to access the relevant resources that once they simply harvested for free.
As these special interests and their political minions lashed out, harassing rangers and threatening to rebel against the nation-state, they sought test cases to undercut the federal agencys regulatory authority; the Forest Service also had its day in court in hopes of establishing precedent for its managerial actions. They found them when Colorado cattleman Fred Light and California shepherd Pierre Grimaud were caught illegally grazing their herds on national forest land. The Colorado legislature even paid all Lights legal expenses in hopes of proving its point that states, not the federal government, had sovereignty over the public lands within their borders. In May 1911,

a ___highly conservative ___ Supreme Court disagreed, ruling unanimously in the Forest Services favor"


The complicated history of who really owns the occupied land in Oregon - The Washington Post
https://apple.news/AkPb9kytzSb25Vf4qhSGmeA

 

[townpete]

"Both cases emerged out of the first Sagebrush Rebellion of the early 20th century. Western livestock, mineral and timber interests had exploded in anger at the re-designation of portions of the public domain into the national forests and the regulations that the newly created Forest Service enacted on grazing, mining and logging. What changed was that ranchers, miners and loggers were required to pay a small fee to access the relevant resources that once they simply harvested for free.
As these special interests and their political minions lashed out, harassing rangers and threatening to rebel against the nation-state, they sought test cases to undercut the federal agencys regulatory authority; the Forest Service also had its day in court in hopes of establishing precedent for its managerial actions. They found them when Colorado cattleman Fred Light and California shepherd Pierre Grimaud were caught illegally grazing their herds on national forest land. The Colorado legislature even paid all Lights legal expenses in hopes of proving its point that states, not the federal government, had sovereignty over the public lands within their borders. In May 1911,

a ___highly conservative ___ Supreme Court disagreed, ruling unanimously in the Forest Services favor"


The complicated history of who really owns the occupied land in Oregon - The Washington Post
https://apple.news/AkPb9kytzSb25Vf4qhSGmeA

 ​

Some things never change... 0_o​

 ​

 

[Ifly2]

And... Again

(Yet again...)

Petey has a cutesy cartoon, but nothing in the way of a response.

Not even a one-liner, with one fact or one idea.

Let's all thank him again for demonstrating his cluelessness

Lol

 

[Ifly2]

They said they'd leave if the locals wantd them to...

"For days Ammon Bundy and his band of armed militia have laid claim to the federal land by arguing they have the support of the nearby community.

Yet that claim received a formidable rebuke on Wednesday night when, one by one, residents of Oregons rural Harney County stood before a microphone at the county fairgrounds to denounce the occupation on their doorstep.

Some 500 working-class men and women who packed into the memorial hall expressed an overwhelming consensus. Its time, they said, for Bundy and his anti-government rabble-rousers to pack up and go home.

This county is a united family and we dont need people to come here from someplace else and tell us how to live our lives, Ward said to a standing ovation."

http://gu.com/p/4ftcg?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[Ifly2]

Ohhhh,

And threats against the sheriff's wife and parents?

How so very manly of them.

 

[Kev3188]

Teabillies: "We'll leave if the people don't want us here."

Harvey county rancher: "Get movin'"

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/01/watch-pissed-hell-oregon-rancher-doesnt

Paiute tribal leader seconds that:

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/native-american-leaders-tell-oregon-terrorists-to-get-off-their-land/23473/

 

[700UW]