If the 700 billion dollar bailout fails , what’s next ?

[LGA Fleet Service]

but if you have a second house that’s empty .. We’re to take it and give it to homeless people … same with hotels , cabins , any place we can shelter people … (i'm not going to leave people on the street to be ravaged by winter )

Da Comrades, take from the elite ruling class and give to working class....glorious workers paradise, yadda yadda yadda.


We heard this from the Soviets all through the cold war and we laughed behind their threadbare backs as they waited in line for bread, toilet paper and other items.

 

[freedom]

Da Comrades, take from the elite ruling class and give to working class....glorious workers paradise, yadda yadda yadda.


We heard this from the Soviets all through the cold war and we laughed behind their threadbare backs as they waited in line for bread, toilet paper and other items.

Hahaha … ah , but I’m not talking about communism brother …I’m going to propose a hybrid …. Democracy , communism , socialism , nationalism all rolled into one …

Have you ever read sir Thomas more’s UTIOPA … you should , it’s insightful …

The communists were fools because they wanted everyone to be equal , but they forgot that people are not equal , nor do they wish to be …. The hardest workers will still reap the most rewards , and those who don’t work hard will get the least , much as we have it today …

With capitalism , we allowed greed to get out of control , destroying our society , most of our people went over the edge with greed , and look at us now … that’s not going to be allowed to happen again . Or at least it shouldn’t be .





p.s , but seriously , about the taking of the houses , do you honestly believe that it wouldn’t happen if millions upon millions of Americans went homeless ? We ARE talking about Americans you know …. This IS something that we as a people would do .

 

[North by Northwest]

wow , i'm shocked how few of you understand what's happening ....

the credit markets are FROZEN ... this is going to affect EVERYONE ... hello EVERYONE ... you'll be in the soup line same as the guy who made 20 million a year , but you know what , when you've been standing in the soup line for 5 hours you'll wish you could put things back the way they were ....


no more car loans , no more mortage loans ... no more credit cards ... and the value of the dollar is going to DROP like a rock , so if your sitting at home with bags full of cash , don't feel too secure ... just take a look at zimbabwe .....

Tens of millions of Americans live with in their means. That means...they buy houses, cars they can afford. They don't have credit cards they can't afford, they don't eat out, they don't take fancy vacations, they don't shop like Paris whatshername. That's how MOST Americans used to live before they were fed "oh, you can afford it, CHARGE IT! Worry about it later!"

Furthermore, their is ALWAYS GOLD. So...let the dollar drop. It's damn near worthless now thanks to "Wall Street".

In case you haven't notice...the value of pay has been dropping for most of the last 8 years. The Red Flags have been waving for 8 years now.

Let the chips fall!

(as for those taking the houses of others...I've yet to see a human that a bullet won't stop. We've seen that scenario before with the corpses littered in the street.)

 

[freedom]

Tens of millions of Americans live with in their means. That means...they buy houses, cars they can afford. They don't have credit cards they can't afford, they don't eat out, they don't take fancy vacations, they don't shop like Paris whatshername. That's how MOST Americans used to live before they were fed "oh, you can afford it, CHARGE IT! Worry about it later!"

Furthermore, their is ALWAYS GOLD. So...let the dollar drop. It's damn near worthless now thanks to "Wall Street".

In case you haven't notice...the value of pay has been dropping for most of the last 8 years. The Red Flags have been waving for 8 years now.

Let the chips fall!

(as for those taking the houses of others...I've yet to see a human that a bullet won't stop. We've seen that scenario before with the corpses littered in the street.)

First on the taking of houses ….



You want to kill a family , husband ,wife and children by putting a bullet to their heads because they wanted to escaped the cold death of winter , then you make me sick . Understand that I do not consider property to be more valuable than human life …. If your not living in a house , and I have family that’s on the street in the dead of winter , I’m putting that family in your unused house ….. You don’t like it , then you’ll answer to the military , because by that time , martial law will have been declared ..


As for gold …. What good is your shinny metal going to be ? There’s no where NEAR enough to go around to make up a new currency … collect all the gold you want , it’s going to be of little value if our entire society falls apart ….and that will happen , our entire economic system is going right down the toilet .. Bailout or no bailout …

Letting the chips fall is a poor idea when it’s our families lives ….in fact , I’m not going to sit at the table and fold my arms while the game goes south , I’m going to start my own game , where everyone wins .

 

[North by Northwest]

We all know this was coming...


http://sirsatire.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/...ailout-package/

 

[JS]

First on the taking of houses ….



You want to kill a family , husband ,wife and children by putting a bullet to their heads because they wanted to escaped the cold death of winter , then you make me sick . Understand that I do not consider property to be more valuable than human life …. If your not living in a house , and I have family that’s on the street in the dead of winter , I’m putting that family in your unused house …..

You can spin it any way you want, but if you try to take someone's property, you will be shot. Bu-bye.

You don’t like it , then you’ll answer to the military , because by that time , martial law will have been declared ..

please seek mental counseling

As for gold …. What good is your shinny metal going to be ? There’s no where NEAR enough to go around to make up a new currency … collect all the gold you want , it’s going to be of little value if our entire society falls apart ….and that will happen , our entire economic system is going right down the toilet .. Bailout or no bailout …

Letting the chips fall is a poor idea when it’s our families lives ….in fact , I’m not going to sit at the table and fold my arms while the game goes south , I’m going to start my own game , where everyone wins .

you need help, buddy

 

[freedom]

Have you heard of eminent domain ?


Well our society in it’s darkest hour will undoubtedly enforce those types of laws ..

Your views on property rights will have to change …

If you a have second house that’s not lived in , why WOULDN’T we put up a homeless family in it ? What if we gave it to one of the workers who built it for you , wouldn’t they have as much if not more right to it than you ?

I’m not going to bother debating trivialities with you , when things get bad , I’m going to put people under roofs , I don’t care who claims they “own “ those roofs or where they come from , if their vacant then their no longer yours . Desperate times call for desperate measures … I’m simply giving you fair warning now so that you may “adjust†for what’s coming …. It’s not my problem that you can’t part with your toys … they will be pried from your hands , one way , or another ..

In closing on the apportion of vacant houses , I’m really not that frightened by threats of owners with guns .. People will fight to defend a house their living in , but they won’t die for a second unused vacant house ….your threats are mere bluff , even if you don’t know it yourself ….


Am I crazy ? Sure hope so , but if our economy falls apart , things are going to get real radical , real fast . We have to head the train off at the pass before it slams into the wall .

 

[North by Northwest]

Freedom...your heart is in the right place.

HOWEVER...you just can't go taking the property of others, no matter what the excuse. We've a long way to go before we have a Great Depression. I suggest you hold your breath and ride this out a while.

Do not forget we are the largest gun owning society on Earth. Americans WILL KILL you over their property (protected by Constitutional law). NO ONE for whatever reason has the right to rob another of their private property. Kinda sounds like the illegal alien issue..."we're here now (broke the law to get here), so we DESERVE to be citizens."

Clearly your concern is for the well being of the less fortunate. Those are the ones that should be living cash and carry, debt free. One can not live high on the hog via credit and good times, then expect others to carry them through the rough times...ala "Wall Street".

 

[freedom]

Freedom...your heart is in the right place.

HOWEVER...you just can't go taking the property of others, no matter what the excuse. We've a long way to go before we have a Great Depression. I suggest you hold your breath and ride this out a while.

Do not forget we are the largest gun owning society on Earth. Americans WILL KILL you over their property (protected by Constitutional law). NO ONE for whatever reason has the right to rob another of their private property. Kinda sounds like the illegal alien issue..."we're here now (broke the law to get here), so we DESERVE to be citizens."

Clearly your concern is for the well being of the less fortunate. Those are the ones that should be living cash and carry, debt free. One can not live high on the hog via credit and good times, then expect others to carry them through the rough times...ala "Wall Street".

Oh don’t worry Northbynorth west , I’m not about to grab a gun and go car jack someone lol …. We ARE a ways a away from the scenario I paint , but I believe it IS coming …

As for taking the property of others , I would of course do it democratically , there will come a tipping point where the majority of citizens agree that the system we have of evicting Americans from their houses who can no longer pay rent (or taxes to the government ) has to end and people must be sheltered …. I guess really that’s the equivalent of mob rule , and those types of things did actually occur during the great depression ..

I know my American people , it’s a tragedy when your watching the family across the street or people on TV getting evicted from their homes , it’s a CRIME against humanity when it’s YOUR family getting evicted …kinda like that saying about the Nazi’s on how people would stand by and watch as one by one someone ELSE got taken away until finally one day they came for you …

I also know that my American people will not be able to tolerate another great depression , if unemployment approaches 25% there will be murder in broad daylight as people go around killing each other over nothing … our society isn’t strong enough to weather a great depression in the manner of several generations ago …. This is the ME society , where we always have an ABUDANCE of everything … we can’t ever let things get to the level of the last depression , because if we do , will turn into zimbawae ….

We have time yet to prepare ….. And I shall …

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Have you heard of eminent domain ?


Well our society in it’s darkest hour will undoubtedly enforce those types of laws ..

Your views on property rights will have to change …

If you a have second house that’s not lived in , why WOULDN’T we put up a homeless family in it ? What if we gave it to one of the workers who built it for you , wouldn’t they have as much if not more right to it than you ?

I’m not going to bother debating trivialities with you , when things get bad , I’m going to put people under roofs , I don’t care who claims they “own “ those roofs or where they come from , if their vacant then their no longer yours . Desperate times call for desperate measures … I’m simply giving you fair warning now so that you may “adjust†for what’s coming …. It’s not my problem that you can’t part with your toys … they will be pried from your hands , one way , or another ..

Freedom, there are plenty of homeless people now. There are also plenty of vacant homes. What is stopping you from implementing your plan now? Who determines when it is bad enough that your plan can be implemented? Who is the arbitrator on determing the more deserving person? Ah... perhaps you should think more about your plan and its flaws before you try to persuade anyone.

 

[freedom]

Freedom, there are plenty of homeless people now. There are also plenty of vacant homes. What is stopping you from implementing your plan now? Who determines when it is bad enough that your plan can be implemented? Who is the arbitrator on determing the more deserving person? Ah... perhaps you should think more about your plan and its flaws before you try to persuade anyone.

Ceasar once said “rule the mob and you rule rome “ … I know the mob , I can feel it … I will know when it’s time … and I am actually working on a method to figure out quite FAIRLY who gets to live in the mansion and who lives in the studio … rationality will rule in all things .

 

[delldude]

wow , i'm shocked how few of you understand what's happening ....

the credit markets are FROZEN ... this is going to affect EVERYONE ... hello EVERYONE ... you'll be in the soup line same as the guy who made 20 million a year , but you know what , when you've been standing in the soup line for 5 hours you'll wish you could put things back the way they were ....


no more car loans , no more mortage loans ... no more credit cards ... and the value of the dollar is going to DROP like a rock , so if your sitting at home with bags full of cash , don't feel too secure ... just take a look at zimbabwe .....

Ahh......already those who have solid credit ratings are NOT having problems getting credit.

Yes the almighty bucko will more than likely drop on the world stage.....it has been recently...but what do you expect with all of America living to the last dollar of the paycheck for quite sometime now.
What goes around comes around....sit back,relax and watch your elected officials only make it worse.

Several talk shows I heard briefly today did in fact say that everyone had trouble getting through to Congress switchboards and emailings.
The old amnesty bill drive has good roots.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Now that the first bailout plan has been defeated in the house and assuming that any potential second vote will not occur (or succeed), I think (and hope) that the powers that be will consider what I suggested earlier: A debt-for-equity swap.

The procedural upside is that this likely would not need approval from congress, as it likely within the fed's current power scheme. Beyond, the procedural upside, many benefits can come from this. First, the duration of this process will likely be shorter than no plan and the bankruptcy process, thereby hopefully shortening any economic pain on a grand scale. Second, while this plan still must confront the difficulty in valuing the toxic assets, it is better than letting the government try to value assets -- who would likely overvalue the assets, thereby enriching the owners/managers of the banks and costing the taxpayers. If, on the other hand, our government correctly pays the actual value of the assets, what good has it done... it has only exchanged one type of capital for another. This approach, after determining the worst-case scenario as the starting value, would create a new second-market value that will be determined by private parties. Third, a debt-for-equity swap in certain situations would benefit both debtholders and equity holders. Forth, it does not socialize losses.

There are more upsides, but those are what I consider the most prevalent; I also recognize that there are several downsides (e.g., valuation), and would like to hear your opinions/objections on the matter. I sincerely hope that the powers that be consider this option... even if it is eventually dismissed for the relief of a better plan. And, notably, this would be the first-step of a long-term solution (not the fix-all). I believe that this may be a decent approach (perhaps one that could be conbined with others), but what do I know; I am, as one poster amusingly suggests, simply a bartending gynecologist.

 

[JS]

Oh don’t worry Northbynorth west , I’m not about to grab a gun and go car jack someone lol …. We ARE a ways a away from the scenario I paint , but I believe it IS coming …

As for taking the property of others , I would of course do it democratically , there will come a tipping point where the majority of citizens agree that the system we have of evicting Americans from their houses who can no longer pay rent (or taxes to the government ) has to end and people must be sheltered …. I guess really that’s the equivalent of mob rule , and those types of things did actually occur during the great depression ..

When the majority of citizens believe that people should get free housing, we are in deep doo-doo.

I know my American people , it’s a tragedy when your watching the family across the street or people on TV getting evicted from their homes , it’s a CRIME against humanity when it’s YOUR family getting evicted …kinda like that saying about the Nazi’s on how people would stand by and watch as one by one someone ELSE got taken away until finally one day they came for you …

Being gassed because you're a jew is not at all comparable to people getting evicted because they wanted to buy a house they couldn't afford.

I also know that my American people will not be able to tolerate another great depression , if unemployment approaches 25% there will be murder in broad daylight as people go around killing each other over nothing … our society isn’t strong enough to weather a great depression in the manner of several generations ago …. This is the ME society , where we always have an ABUDANCE of everything … we can’t ever let things get to the level of the last depression , because if we do , will turn into zimbawae ….

We have time yet to prepare ….. And I shall …

 

[Art at ISP]

I think that Congress will work on another bill, but one less aimed at helping the banks and institutions but one aimed at helping the innocent victims--US.

There should be no assistance for institutions who let greed get the better part of their judgement-who gave mortgages to people knowing they would be unable to repay them.

There should be no more golden parachutes or any financial rewards for executives of the companies above.

There should also be little or no assistance for those people who KNOWINGLY obtained such mortgages, knowing they'd never pay them back. Greed existed on both sides of these transactions.

I was originally in favor of the bailout, but now I am not sure I would support something structured as the one which failed yesterday was.

Make it more about Main Street and less about Wall Street. The credit markets have to get up and running again, but those who made bad decisions driven by greed SHOULD suffer the consequences of their decisions.

Now the question is HOW to do that......