IAM Ramp etc. Topic for Week of 11/30 to 12/6

[Richard]

This is for IAM Ramp and non mechanic discussion for the week.

 

[diogenes]

Richard,

I'll be happy to play the game by any rules you want. Which rules do you want?

1. Only fleet topics at fleet threads, and mech topics at mech threads?

2. Only fleet agents on fleet threads, etc.?

3. What if fleet folks want to address mech issues, and vice versa?

4. Given fleet/mech chats often involve a common union, which thread should we address?

I would assume option 1 makes the most sense, but I have long given up on the notion that makes any difference.

Thanks in advance,

Dio 😉

 

[Richard]

Dio,

I would be happy to have one thread for IAM period, but it may meander too much. This is an experiment, but for now, let's go with option 1 okay?

The basic goal is to eliminate parallel discussions in multiple threads, and make the resulting threads easy to follow.

If anyone has better ideas on how to accomplish this feel free to PM me or any of my fellow moderators.

Thanks!

 

[The Bagfather]

Can anybody confirm the rumor that Parkers position with M@R is if/when
the COC is decided in M@R's favor Doug will be happy to live with two
separate contracts indefinately? This may be a M@R issue but FS would
probably be the same. The ball then is in the IAM's court for both.
They would then be forced to negotiate the existing contracts for the West.

As a FS westie I'm OK with this but my fear is the IAM is too motivated
to get one contract. But that contract perhaps being introduced sometime
soon will of necessity be a huge consession for the east. Why should they
pay for the IAM's inaction on the west's TWU contract?

I don't think enough people appreciate the strenth of FS position. But with
the IAM's motivation to secure the back dues from the West we have a big problem.
And what's going on with those dues? Is it possible to account for them?

I believe that the IAM is allowed to use them for "administrative purposes". Maybe
they've admisistered them dry? Who knows? But if they want to use what's
left to negotiate our contract I'm OK with that. Any contract for the west must
include serious back pay issues.

Thanks BF

 

[lithuanian]

Here's something to stir the pot. Last July, about the 10th the messenger reported Delta organizing would not cost any dues collected until a ratified contract with IAM. At no cost, not a cent to members until they had a radified contract. If I had the messenger for July it was in a large article.
This was addressed to our union rep. He expressed that the members Dues that had been in ESCROW up till this time and up to a year and a half for the Fleet (formerly) TWU, had just been released to all chapters of the IAM as of JULY 2nd. He told us the dues that apparently we thought were still frozen due to the contract negotiations, had been released July 2nd 2007.
I never asked him again. And I'm afraid to ask if IAM is still going after DELTA without any member paying a DIME to forward IAM organizing.
I sure hope what he told us is untrue and he was mistaken. Otherwise TWU?/USAIRWAY union members are paying as we go for something never to end. AND, DELTA members will have nothing taken out until a contract is ratified.

 

[lithuanian]

Just emailed Brickner. Let's see if he is even aware of this statement.

 

[lithuanian]

I am getting kicked off again. This is the honest reply from Brickner. See you later. The truth of his email tells alot to the future of and as to the results of our airiine surviving against the odds. Thanks
Why would dues be an issue? You belong to a Union, any Union, you pay your dues, right? It' part of our contribution to the strength of the group. The IAM continues to spend resources in its effort to win a transition agreement acceptable to the majority. The Union accomplished one agreement acceptable to the West. However, for all practical bargaining purpooses there is no longer an AWA, and we must get back to the difficult task of bargaining a contract that East, West and shareholders can live with going forward.
The IAM isn't negotiating anything with Delta because the IAM doesn't represent any employees at Delta. We are organizing at Delta in anticipation that Delta will likely merge with an IAM-represented carrier in the future.
I expect the IAM will be bargaining for East and West on USA as soon as we get the CIC decision, if not before. The sooner we are all USA, and not divided and thinking USA and AWA, the better for all. AWA no longer exists and is never coming back. How does one enter into a new contract with an entity that no longer exists? We will have a new contract that covers you, but it logicallly will cover all of fleet and be with the surviving entity USA. In the meantime the IAM continues to spend resources in that effort - attorneys, economists, reps continue to explore ways to overcome our differences with USA and get an agreement.
Hope all is well.
Tom


Are you aware that the AWA Fleet dues have been released from escrow as of July 2nd. This is now an issue as to whether IAM goes into negotiations for AWA FLEET. Also. Is it true IAM is negotiating Delta Fleet without any fees being taken in from agents. Analee

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[pjirish317]

lith,
This is a typical I AM MANAGEMENT response. Don't worry about your money. We have it now. That is all we cared about anyway. This is basicly what "Tom" is saying. When we decide to negotiate for you we will, not 1 second before. His e-mail sounded like he was saying quit whining. We will only bargain for you if we can bargain for a CBA that puts East and West together. It also sounded like that they are in negotiations for that very agreement. The question will be, what do we have to give back to the company for that CBA? Probably profit sharing, the "COC" ruling, and who knows what else. When are we going ever going to not have to give back to the company for a decent CBA? Maybee when the I AM MANAGEMENT grows some B@#LS and stands up to DOUGIE. Not that I think that will ever happen though.

 

[Labor Dawg]

lith We have told you before the IAM isn't interested in doing anything of real worth for us. They already have your money. That crap about just trying to organize DL for a possible merge is a joke. First they are using our dues to get another group instead of working for us. I know that they have to do this under normal operations, but straighten out your own house before you try to clean someone else’s house. They were already trying to do this long before now, because they thought that DL would be apart of US which in turn would one day be apart of UA. Now either US or DL look like they will be apart of UA. If they get a deal that will probably mean that who ever it is will be screwed by the deal with UA. You keep on believing the IAM leadership and one day you will wake up asking, what is that in my back? He is also showing how they will be raising the dues again. It takes a lot of your money to get other unions onboard. We need the IAM to dwell on our issues before they get someone else’s issues. I believe this; the IAM could care less about our group. They feel they are now secure from any action for a while. The threat of having another union election shook some cages, but for the most part it is back to business as usual. This means raising dues and figuring out a way to take the coc award away from the group and more importantly not working on a section six for the west. The funny thing is he is eluding to the fact they are not nor have they ever tried to get relief for the west group except thru a concessionary T/A.

 

[Tim Nelson]

lith We have told you before the IAM isn't interested in doing anything of real worth for us. They already have your money. That crap about just trying to organize DL for a possible merge is a joke. First they are using our dues to get another group instead of working for us. I know that they have to do this under normal operations, but straighten out your own house before you try to clean someone else’s house. They were already trying to do this long before now, because they thought that DL would be apart of US which in turn would one day be apart of UA. Now either US or DL look like they will be apart of UA. If they get a deal that will probably mean that who ever it is will be screwed by the deal with UA. You keep on believing the IAM leadership and one day you will wake up asking, what is that in my back? He is also showing how they will be raising the dues again. It takes a lot of your money to get other unions onboard. We need the IAM to dwell on our issues before they get someone else’s issues. I believe this; the IAM could care less about our group. They feel they are now secure from any action for a while. The threat of having another union election shook some cages, but for the most part it is back to business as usual. This means raising dues and figuring out a way to take the coc award away from the group and more importantly not working on a section six for the west. The funny thing is he is eluding to the fact they are not nor have they ever tried to get relief for the west group except thru a concessionary T/A.

Labor Dawg,
FWIW: 4 district officer slots for the 6 US AIRWAYS positions being nominated on the'anti Boss Canale' ticket are secure with each candidate now in agreement of interest. We have also made solid contact with UA and ALoha labor advocates and the ticket will be full, no question.

The two remaining slots are in discussion. A meeting will be worked out where all candidates can attend and make final confirmations of interest.

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

I am getting kicked off again. This is the honest reply from Brickner. See you later. The truth of his email tells alot to the future of and as to the results of our airiine surviving against the odds. Thanks
Why would dues be an issue? You belong to a Union, any Union, you pay your dues, right? It' part of our contribution to the strength of the group. The IAM continues to spend resources in its effort to win a transition agreement acceptable to the majority. The Union accomplished one agreement acceptable to the West. However, for all practical bargaining purpooses there is no longer an AWA, and we must get back to the difficult task of bargaining a contract that East, West and shareholders can live with going forward.
The IAM isn't negotiating anything with Delta because the IAM doesn't represent any employees at Delta. We are organizing at Delta in anticipation that Delta will likely merge with an IAM-represented carrier in the future.
I expect the IAM will be bargaining for East and West on USA as soon as we get the CIC decision, if not before. The sooner we are all USA, and not divided and thinking USA and AWA, the better for all. AWA no longer exists and is never coming back. How does one enter into a new contract with an entity that no longer exists? We will have a new contract that covers you, but it logicallly will cover all of fleet and be with the surviving entity USA. In the meantime the IAM continues to spend resources in that effort - attorneys, economists, reps continue to explore ways to overcome our differences with USA and get an agreement.
Hope all is well.
Tom


Are you aware that the AWA Fleet dues have been released from escrow as of July 2nd. This is now an issue as to whether IAM goes into negotiations for AWA FLEET. Also. Is it true IAM is negotiating Delta Fleet without any fees being taken in from agents. Analee

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Wasn't Tom the self proclaimed economist that said Oil was going to hit $100 a barrell? I'm not surprised that ole Tom has the interest of the shareholders in mind. Tom is not a labor guy and his endless rhetoric that leads to his agreement with Parker that 'there is no west' is simply inaccurate. There is a west, bottom line, and it's time TOM REALIZES THIS AND STARTS DOING HIS J. O. B. AND STARTS NEGOTIATING FOR THE WEST. THE EAST NEEDS THE WEST TO PICK UP THE SECTION 6 NEGOTIATIONS AGAIN FOR THE WEST. PARKER WANTS TRANSITION NEGOTIATIONS, THE IAM SHOULD WANT SECTION 6.
Remember, the IAM can just as easily negotiate section 6 negotiations for the west and include the east in those instead of vice versa. This is possible because in the east contract, the east DOES NOT HAVE TO CROSS PICKET LINES THAT MAY BE ESTABLISHED BY THE WEST. Leadership must be changed because the current appointments and future appointments by Canale of those who are representing the west are killing not only the west but also the east.

All west siders need to realize again, the east will NOT even want to bother with negotiations once it wins $30,000 back pay awards and wages up to $26hr. Whoever is believing Tom that the east will want a transition that gives up concessions must be on crack. Remember, the east voted out the last contract by 87% systemwide, BEFORE any COC award, that's how important the award is. The east has $439million reasons NOT to negotiate once an COC is awarded.

regards,

 

[lithuanian]

Tim. As much as some of us wanted you away from the issues, it was reassuring that you reply.
For quite awhile, we have requested anyone of the union to reply. Mr. Brickner acknowledged our replies. Due to his extensive background, his remarks made good sense to AWA fleet: Not knowing the history by any means. We AWA are not much experienced with unions. But the last two years have shown how close both company and unions relate but differ from each other.
Unfortunately, the members of the group unions vs company represent are NOT the group of our grandparents. Companies/Unions whomever, will have to convince employees that they have worth and will NOT be taken for subordinates! We are not the generation of our grandparents nor refugees.
Don't underestimate the result of US! Boy! I wish I could liken up. But what we need are leaders that were there for the Depression. Hate to think we are going for the Recession.

 

[lithuanian]

Boy, we have all kinds of information. Anyone know for a fact the new hires are asked for 50 dollars up front for the union before their 90 days. And anyone trying to suspend dues to the union are not allowed even given the fact we have waited nearly two years. We have tried to suspend dues but are not allowed because our union has requested the company to deny this? Is this illegal?
My point is, until we get results, we should be given the choice as Americans to SUSPEND dues until we see results. At a point where we definitely need representation a CHECK would be issued to catch up. But until we see real results why should these dues have been released July 2nd.2007 for the AWA Fleet.

 

[orioleman]

lith,
I think what you are looking for is a Union that represents you and listens to your concerns and needs. Sorry to tell you

my friend but your not going to get that from the IAM .. we on the east have tryed for 13 years to be heard from to no avail. I know you

were a big advocate for "lets wait and see what the coc does before we seek other representation" and let's make changes from within

well unfortunately You will be seeing in the coming months and years . what we on the east were trying to do . in getting other

representation to hear our voice. the IBEW is gone and IMO that was our last shot at getting a REAL union on the property to fight for us

Actions speak louder than words. Tom can e-mail you (or his assistant) all they want but until they put those actions in to words and DO

SOMETHING they are nothing more than just that words .. So good luck in your in en devours of flying the IAM flag , but when the day

is done YOU will get what The IAM/COMPANY want you to have. YOU have no real voice in this union..

regards

 

[rat tales]

Rumor has it that Hemmingway and Canale are in T/A talks without the presence of our negotiating committee. Has anyone else heard this. If this is true then Canale's spouting in every paper that "US Airways Membership Chooses Change of Control Arbitration" is a load of horse s##t. Fleet Service from east to west coast needs a preemptive strike before he can hit us with another T/A. The International needs to know that if Canale brings an offer to the table that includes the loss of one station or scope, there will be hell to pay. Also, what do you guys think about circulating a petition station to station to this effect? Some thing to leave a paper trail if lawyers need to be called in!