How Much Longer Does Us Have?

[javaboy]

of course if DAL goes into BK first and UAIR can avoid it for several months one of the first things that happens as UAIR employees know is CUTS not only employees/wages but FLIGHTs very quickly things can change just as DAL predicated its recovery in part to the demise of U and would recover a certain percentage of thier customers thus increasing revenue. now the tables could be turned as DAL to has payments forthcoming. Should they reduce flights 20% those customers could travel on UAIR thus increasing gross revenues to a point that allows for something UAIR needs most MORE TIME. not to say this is a cure but ironic how DAL was hoping for the demise of U to save itself now the situation could be reversed.

i dont wish ill for any airline(s) employee (even if others did for UAIR) however perhaps there is yet another answer. instead of hammering out in short order permanent changes what about and intermim agreement to say satisfy requirements til say spring? with an automatic return to table? reason simply to reduce costs immediately to improve cash flow to a point where perhaps by the time you are obligated to return to the table REVs may have spiked due to DAL reductions (and lets not forget UAL probably has another 10% reduction before exit) ...

not the definitive answer but another thought from "outside the box" which apparently is where i wander alot

h34r:

 

[Winglet]

Need to monitor the back door loading dock of the Crystal Palace. I'd say that that the senior managers are starting to shovel "theirs' out the back door in preparation of the end. In the chaos of the final liquidation, any bets on how many truckload of money are going to be "lost."

 

[28yrsnojob]

THE Stand is closed Full pay to the last day.

 

[delldude]

These Idiots have once again chosen to fight and threaten the Employees thru the Press. They still haven't figured out that this scares passengers away, and only makes matters worse. When CO went this route, I don't recall learning all of the details from the Newspapers. Just think how much business was lost with the
Liquidation threats prior to the busy Holiday season. Only a bunch of fools would go public with this type of info. I know if GM said they may close up shop, that I would run and buy one of their products. THINK BEFORE YOU TALK TO THE PRESS.........IT MIGHT HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON BOOKINGS !!!!!!

[post="168516"][/post]​

we need more people flying - hey we might go bankrupt around 9-11...you may get burned buying a ticket.
we need to get older people retiring-hey we're going to cut retirees bennies
we want to work with IAM-we're outsourcing your work
we need help from cwa-you'll work for 13.01 or else
blah,blah,blah.
'YALL HAVE A GREAT USAIRWAYS DAY,YA HEAR?

 

[ITRADE]

These Idiots have once again chosen to fight and threaten the Employees thru the Press. They still haven't figured out that this scares passengers away, and only makes matters worse. When CO went this route, I don't recall learning all of the details from the Newspapers. Just think how much business was lost with the
Liquidation threats prior to the busy Holiday season. Only a bunch of fools would go public with this type of info. I know if GM said they may close up shop, that I would run and buy one of their products. THINK BEFORE YOU TALK TO THE PRESS.........IT MIGHT HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON BOOKINGS !!!!!!

[post="168516"][/post]​

Ummmm.....What say you concerning the financial report that was issued by a financial advisor to a union???? Basically confirmed everything management has said.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

ITrade: an astute point, but you need to factor in WHICH union.

Now, if having seen this report, ALPA were to come out and say...things are worse than we thought.....we pilots have volunteered to fly aircraft for $13.01 an hour...then you might start to see a lot of movement on the part of the other labor groups.

I dunno...I've always been pretty antipathetic towards organized labor (one could say I am very nearly anti-union.) I like living in a right-to-work state. But to me it looks pretty transparent that what U's management is doing...since they cannot seem to find time to run an airline properly...is to divide the labor groups up and pit employee vs employee.

Cutting an employee from $150K to $100K a year is pretty drastic, but it is by no means nearly as drastic as cutting someone from $40K to $25K. (I don't have exact numbers, but based upon what we've seen on the boards that would closely approximate what the management's ideas would do).

I expect management (this time) to stroll in the courtroom and try to get the contracts tossed out, except for ALPA's (since they are being sooooooooo cooperative and have the best interests of the airline at heart.) "Your honor....we tried to reason with ALL of the employee groups...the pilots, for example, saw how wretched a shape the airline was in and they were willing to jump right in to the concession slop. But everybody else was being obstinate, contrary, and they just wouldn't negotiate."

If I were the judge, I'd tell them to go back and bargain IN GOOD FAITH. But I'm not.

If the judge does, in fact, toss out the contracts and management+pilots prevail RIGHT NOW....the next interesting thing to happen will be when management decides they can make even more money if they reach out and take back some of the pilot contract. Don't think it will happen? Very few on these airline boards thought that management would belly up to the bar for a 3rd round of "management giveth and management taketh away."

Bottom line - ALPA is not a reliable source of information. It's not like they have a hidden agenda or anything.

 

[Winglet]

It's hard to see how U is going to survive regardless of another Chapter 11 or not. Management's record is so incompetent and onerous as to make the company unrecoverable. Employee morale after another round of massive layoffs and compensation cuts would be the coup de gra, if it even gets that far.

You're right about ALPA. There's plenty more water in that well. The senior Captains won't draw a line in the sand until their seniority number comes up on the chopping block and all other employee groups are picked clean or outsourced. Such is "unity" among pilot unions. Calling pilot unions "unions" is almost a farce.

 

[PITbull]

EP pasgr,

ALPA covertly got their message out so they could do the bidding for managment. ALPA placed the "hammer" on the rest of labor and now it makes it difficult for the rest of labor to negotiate fairly.

ALPA's analyst needs to tell ALPA that the company needs for them to go from $150,000 average to $50,000, because they are asking Customer service and f/a to go from an average of $40,000 to $25.000.

Those are apples to apples.

Managment needs to take a 30% shave as well.

 

[mweiss]

Managment needs to take a 30% shave as well.

[post="168804"][/post]​

The difference, of course, is that the nonunion employees have no incentive to stay if wages drop, while union employees do.

 

[mweiss]

Anyways, that's going to be it for me. I may drop by from time to time, but for now it's trying to be a real productive member of society again. I kinda missed it. I suspect the rest of you will, too. I hope you all land safely wherever your travels and travails take you.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Anyways, that's going to be it for me. I may drop by from time to time, but for now it's trying to be a real productive member of society again. I kinda missed it. I suspect the rest of you will, too. I hope you all land safely wherever your travels and travails take you.

[post="168848"][/post]​

Come on, Michael. Make it an even 2200. This weekend.

 

[Phoenix]

Ummmm.....What say you concerning the financial report that was issued by a financial advisor to a union???? Basically confirmed everything management has said.

[post="168771"][/post]​

Thanks for the warning to abandon ship!

Swim hard so you don't get sucked in... Best of luck dude!

 

[ktflyhome]

The difference, of course, is that the nonunion employees have no incentive to stay if wages drop, while union employees do.

[post="168846"][/post]​

Mweiss, union folks have no incentive to stay or work.

 

[cavalier]

Ummmm.....What say you concerning the financial report that was issued by a financial advisor to a union???? Basically confirmed everything management has said.

[post="168771"][/post]​

I say it gives a ham operator lots of time to play radio.