History Being Made

[tech2101]

Come on twaokc, Ken has good intentions and I can respect that. The only problem I have with Ken is the AMT term that he continually promotes with out even realizing the damage he is doing to the A&P Mechanic.

Great. A scab telling Ken that he is doing damage to the A&P Mechanic. I guess we will never understand the tortured logic of a scab brain. :blink:

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Great. A scab telling Ken that he is doing damage to the A&P Mechanic. I guess we will never understand the tortured logic of a scab brain. :blink:

Think about it Jr. All I did was assist an Airline from liquidating so there would be future jobs. NWA is now operating in the black. Lets take a look at Kens program. He wants to replace the A&P that requires a fairly substantial training program to achieve the certificate with the AMT term that requires no training at all. Give a kid fresh out of high school a ballpeen hammer and show him an aircraft and poof he's an AMT. That is my only problem with Kens cause. If the A&P and AMT were equal terms I would not have a problem. Or if he were promoting the A&P I wouldn't have a problem. The AMT's are already outnumbering the A&P's which is already killing the pay scale. So what do you think is going to happen when A&P's are no longer required.

 

[MCI transplant]

Great. A scab telling Ken that he is doing damage to the A&P Mechanic. I guess we will never understand the tortured logic of a scab brain. :blink:

<_< ----Hey tech! Don't feed the monkey!!!! :down:


<_< -----From what I hear there will be 18 Charles Taylor Award members here on the 24th. That's with the four new members! That adds up to 900 years of exTWA Aircraft experience!!!---

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

<_< ----Hey tech! Don't feed the monkey!!!! :down:
<_< -----From what I hear there will be 18 Charles Taylor Award members here on the 24th. That's with the four new members! That adds up to 900 years of exTWA Aircraft experience!!!---

I have spoken with Dick Hankins in MCI and he has informed me that 5 C.E.T. Master Mechanic Awards will be presented on May 24th to MCI AMTs. Mr. Hankins would like to try and get every Master Mechanic Award recipient in MCI together which would equal about 1000 years of experience. Now THAT would be history making.

pto, you have soiled my profession by your cowardice and inept and lame attempt to explain your actions. Please do not defile this thread with your continued ignorance and cowardice. Start a new thread where you can reply to yourself.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----Ken I do apologize! That should have been "exTWA/AA" total experience!---

 

[PlayTheOdds]

pto, you have soiled my profession by your cowardice and inept and lame attempt to explain your actions. Please do not defile this thread with your continued ignorance and cowardice. Start a new thread where you can reply to yourself.

Sorry Ken but I have already tried that, it apparently wasn’t good enough for you. See my signature. I borrowed a link from the NWA board that was shared with us by tech2101 to help support my theory as to why I think you are eroding our craft with your beloved AMT term. You guys like to blindly say there is no difference between an A&P and AMT but this FAA report seems to agree with me that there is a significant difference.

An interesting study:

http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/ar02-122.pdf

I find it interesting that in this part of the report there is a concern over a shortage of certified mechanics, which of course would be the A&P there is not even a mention of the lesser term AMT.

“shortage of qualified labor. In some cases, this has caused repair stations to rely on temporary and uncertificated mechanics.â€￾

"qualified labor" means A&P. "uncertificated mechanics" mean AMT.

“The aircraft MRO industry is facing a critical shortage of qualified personnel to perform hands-on tasks, as well as managers to supervise the technical workforce [7]. George Ebbs, president of Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, has warned that the number of trained and experienced aircraft technicians is not keeping pace with industry expansion.â€￾

“Maintenance that is completed when aircraft are out of service—heavy maintenance checks, detailed inspections, major repairs and alterations are mostly completed by specialists. Although the majority of the specialists are A&P certificated, many are uncertified and perform under the supervision of certificated individuals.â€￾

The "uncertified" ones are AMTs.

“Repair station maintenance staff differs significantly from those in air carriers in that the majority of those working in repair stations are specialists of whom only half are A&P certified.â€￾

The other half are AMTs

Now I find the following paragraph extremely interesting. Do note how the paragraph totally separates the two terms as if one is well above the other. But you guys make them as if they were one and so is the industry. Do you know what the difference is in the contract industry between an AMT and A&P?...Nothing. AMT’s and A&P’s make exactly the same there is no premiums paid for having an A&P. Soon the airlines will follow suit.

“Under the current regulations, AMTs have no annual recurrent training requirements beyond what is specified for a few with special task requirements. There is no system in which the FAA can communicate with A&P certified mechanics to pass on regulatory information, recent safety issues, accident reviews, breakdowns in the system, or human factors issues that could adversely affect aviation safety if not remedied.â€￾

 

[FWAAA]

"I'm actually doing more to improve your flock than you are"

says the Coyote, to sheep as he slaughters them.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

"I'm actually doing more to improve your flock than you are"
says the Coyote, to sheep as he slaughters them.

I take it Ken is the coyote and the A&Ps are the sheep. That would make the AMT's the parasites.

How is your portfolio looking these days FWAAA?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I take it Ken is the coyote and the A&Ps are the sheep. That would make the AMT's the parasites.

How is your portfolio looking these days FWAAA?

No, that would make you the idiot yet again.

The title AMT was created by the FAA when they proposed FAR Part 66. It included Testing/Training requirements that exceed those of todays A&Ps.

This has been brought up time and again whenever you start blathering on about AMTs being the doom of A&Ps.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

The title AMT was created by the FAA when they proposed FAR Part 66. It included Testing/Training requirements that exceed those of todays A&Ps.

...and where is Part 66 and what does it do to support the AMT term today?

"...that exceed those of todays A&Ps."? HMMMMM, are you sure of this?

 

[PlayTheOdds]

The title AMT was created by the FAA when they proposed FAR Part 66. It included Testing/Training requirements that exceed those of todays A&Ps.

Do share with us Thirdseat the exact paragraph that says AMT's will carry the same privileges as A&Ps. Also show us where an AMT's training exceeds that of an A&P while, once again, maintaining the same privileges of an A&P.

 

[exnw]

Think about it Jr. All I did was assist an Airline from liquidating so there would be future jobs. NWA is now operating in the black. Lets take a look at Kens program. He wants to replace the A&P that requires a fairly substantial training program to achieve the certificate with the AMT term that requires no training at all. Give a kid fresh out of high school a ballpeen hammer and show him an aircraft and poof he's an AMT. That is my only problem with Kens cause. If the A&P and AMT were equal terms I would not have a problem. Or if he were promoting the A&P I wouldn't have a problem. The AMT's are already outnumbering the A&P's which is already killing the pay scale. So what do you think is going to happen when A&P's are no longer required.

You assisted an airline from liquidating! How absurd!
All you did was was assist NW in getting rid of thousands
of mechanics, as well as other ground workers when NW
outsourced 69 stations. Pilots taking a hit and flight
attendants being forced into a contract by a bancruptcy
judge. By crossing a picket line your actions have cost
thousands of people their livelihoods. Why arent't you
still at NW if you are claiming to have ridden in on a
white horse?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Do share with us Thirdseat the exact paragraph that says AMT's will carry the same privileges as A&Ps. Also show us where an AMT's training exceeds that of an A&P while, once again, maintaining the same privileges of an A&P.

Here you go, you ignorant fool.

www.nbaa.org/maint/part66.htm

The original proposal to change the term ``mechanic'' to ``aviation maintenance technician'' has, therefore, been modified to reflect the proposed change. All privileges granted to an AMT(T) with an aircraft rating, as set forth in this notice, would apply to the holder of a current mechanic certificate with airframe and powerplant ratings.

......the time interval in which recent experience requirements would be measured would continue to be stated in months. Also as a result of comments received, this proposal would propose a mandatory recurrent training requirement for AMTs and AMT(T)s who use their certificates for compensation or hire;.........

 

[PlayTheOdds]

You assisted an airline from liquidating! How absurd!
All you did was was assist NW in getting rid of thousands
of mechanics, as well as other ground workers when NW
outsourced 69 stations. Pilots taking a hit and flight
attendants being forced into a contract by a bancruptcy
judge. By crossing a picket line your actions have cost
thousands of people their livelihoods. Why arent't you
still at NW if you are claiming to have ridden in on a
white horse?

I will answer your question over on the NWA Board just shortly but first I would like to make a comment about your post here...

Do not think for a minute that these AA/TWU Grandstand Cheer leaders here support your cause one single bit. It was these guys who sent the largest group of Scabs to cross your picket line. As a matter of fact there is an X-AA/TWU NWA Scab living in Sperry Ok and working in Tulsa Ok working on AA components. The guys here on this board have welcomed him back with open arms. They have cried so much to the moderators on this board that they have swept their dirt under the rug. I have PM'd a couple of these AA/TWU servants about this only to receive derogatory or no responses. This scab drives down their streets, lives in their neighborhoods, eats in their restraunts and shops in their stores with no recourse of being a scab. Do not think these are honorable union members here for I have no doubt they would storm across their own picket line in a heartbeat. They talk big here when they are hiding behind the curtain of the internet but the truth is they are all cowards and should be looked upon as you have chosen to look upon your AMFA brothers that crossed their own picket line. AA/TWU :down:

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Here you go, you ignorant fool.
www.nbaa.org/maint/part66.htm

And where is Part 66? Also What does Kens beloved AMT have to do with the AMT(T)? As I said AMT's are parasites living off the A&P's. The FAA won't even call them the same or give them the same privlidges. Proof is in my previous post and in you own.

Many of the discrepancies between the current proposal and the earlier NPRM resulted from the previous proposal to equate a mechanic certificate to an aviation maintenance technician (AMT) certificate. As a result of the completion of the second phase of this review, the FAA proposes the creation of AMT and AMT(T) certificates. The current mechanic certificate with airframe and powerplant ratings would be equivalent to the proposed AMT(T) certificate with an aircraft rating (with no loss of privileges) and not the AMT certificate, as stated in the earlier NPRM. The original proposal to change the term ``mechanic'' to ``aviation maintenance technician'' has, therefore, been modified to reflect the proposed change. All privileges granted to an AMT(T) with an aircraft rating, as set forth in this notice, would apply to the holder of a current mechanic certificate with airframe and powerplant ratings. The holder of the proposed AMT certificate with an aircraft rating would not possess the full approval for return-to-service privileges of the holder of either the current mechanic certificate with an airframe and powerplant rating or the proposed (and equivalent) AMT(T) certificate with an aircraft rating.