Has The Time Finally Arrived To Remove All Unions

[FLYUSAIRWAYS]

:huh: Just thought that this would be a great poll to start, to see if any pilots, FA's, fleet service, Customer Service, and Mechanics , think that Usairways employees would be better off without their union. At this point, are they really useful to us? Are we getting any value from our dues? If this poll indicates that we all want to rid the company of unions, how would we go about it?

 

[fatherof2]

I believe the way you worded the post is unfair. It weighs heavily towards the non-union point of view. I believe that the union is a necessary watchdog over management.
Do you really believe that if we had not been unionized, we would have gotten a better deal? One has to only look at what happened to the ununionized customer service people a few years ago and see the porking they took from the company! This led to them organizing into the CWA.
We bemoan about our union dues in a forum such as this, yet we fail to mention what our previous contracts gave us to enjoy a better life.
Sure, we could have gone someplace else and and done something different. Yet, the facts remain, we all stayed and benefitted from our union contracts. A few examples of where we benefitted....better pay,better working conditions,better medical benefits, just to mention a few.
Although I disagreed with the way information was distributed from our union negotiating committee, I still supported them. The few dollars I spent on union dues was well worth the quality of life I have enjoyed over the last several years.

 

[700UW]

1992 is a prime example of why unions are needed at US Airways.

Fleet Service and Customer Service were non-union and Good old Butch raped them economically.

And Union Dues are tax deductible, so they actually do not cost you anything.

 

[delldude]

1992 is a prime example of why unions are needed at US Airways.

Fleet Service and Customer Service were non-union and Good old Butch raped them economically.

And Union Dues are tax deductible, so they actually do not cost you anything.

[post="241602"][/post]​

they don't do you any good if you can't itemize........ 😱

 

[calibrator]

they don't do you any good if you can't itemize........ 😱

[post="241603"][/post]​

Or if the membership were raised by a generation of hippies who taught their children that smoking weed was more important then taking a stand, that "peace" was all that mattered even if they kill you, and killing the membership they are...

Membership wimps equals no membership hence dues are a waste for such pathetic so called brothers and sisters.

 

[UseYourHead]

There are MANY IMPORTANT reasons to keep the unions on the property, and it would be a BIG mistake to get rid of ALPA.

If the RC4 would have listened to the Advisors during the last several months the contract would have been much better.

Lastly, even without ALPA, you would still have a group of folks running the show and that would be without the checks and balances at the National/International level.

It would be a mistake to go it alone.

:huh: Just thought that this would be a great poll to start, to see if any pilots, FA's, fleet service, Customer Service, and Mechanics , think that Usairways employees would be better off without their union. At this point, are they really useful to us?  Are we getting any value from our dues? If this poll indicates that we all want to rid the company of unions, how would we go about it?

[post="241593"][/post]​

 

[PITbull]

:huh: Just thought that this would be a great poll to start, to see if any pilots, FA's, fleet service, Customer Service, and Mechanics , think that Usairways employees would be better off without their union. At this point, are they really useful to us?  Are we getting any value from our dues? If this poll indicates that we all want to rid the company of unions, how would we go about it?

[post="241593"][/post]​

So, then, Jerry would be truly successful in busting the unions.

Yup, go ahead, make his day!

You guys who want to blame union leadership instead of yourselves for voting in these contracts look for an excuse to even wake up in the morning.

Damn if they send a proposal out; and damn if they don't.

Members who think like you take no responsibility. You should have been able to go out and convince your group to think just like you. And if you had any abilities at all, they would have voted it down.

Truth is, folks are getting the heck out of this industry.

Why would anyone want to stay WITH A MANAGMENT who operate an airline right into the gutter. PHL is a mess again from this weekend and crews are everywhere, last night with no hotel rooms and no van, subway, or cab service to be even be rested to continue on their trips. And the employees take this crap all on a reduced wage with no retirment security. All the while, the execs are positioned to get wealthy.

AND EVERYONE KNOWS THERE ARE BONUSES TO GO AROUND FOR THESE EXECS WHO EXCUTED A PLAN THROUGH BK AGAIN TO ROB THEIR EMPLOYEES.

The only thing that will save this industry is an act of Congress to protect labor, their pensions and ultimately the consumer.

OUtsourcing is a trend that is running like a cancer across our country. Manuafacturing jobs are almost instinct and we are supporting other countries enconomies, while ours goes down the tubes. Hell, the dollar is so weak against the EURO it is pathetic. You will need a bushel of money in the future just to put food on the table, and plan on working in your "golden years" till you drop over!

Don't look now, but your Congressional "right wingers" are trying to change the Social Security provisions, along with allowing your pensions to be placed on the taxpayers, who are now supporting a full blown major war in IRAQ, and now the Tsunami victims. Baby boomers are now starting to retire, and Congress knows this is a big burden to the SS system. They will endeavor to strip the American workers of everything, even your Social Security, no medical retirment security, pensions are in jeopardy with the PBGC as all airlines run to dump their pesnion liability....and you sit and worry about unions and dues????

Give me a break!

Corporate America Executive Thieves and the Board Rooms are making sure labor is too crippled to react, while they stuff their pockets and strip companies in this country.

The Super Power days in America are coming to an end sooner rather than later. American workers can no longer support a system that has "run a muck", and the average American worker is so in debt that the only entity that will survive in this country are the BANKS, who will own all our property when all is said and done.


Your focus should be on what your government ISN'T DOING WITH YOUR HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS, PAL, instead of focusing on what this company wants you to focus on...those who dare ripple the company's plans.

WAKE UP!

Take your eyes OFF the great American pass time..FOOTBALL, FOR A CHANGE AND ADDRESS YOUR POLITICAL LEADERS THAT HAVE A BLIND EYE TO THE REAL THEIVES IN AMERICA.

 

[PSA1979]

I know most everyone is angry at our unions. We got some very bad contracts and have done nothing but give back for the last few years if not longer. But let's think about what it would be like with out them. Look at the non-union workers down in CCY, they got pink slips, with no thought to seniority, no chance to bump anyone, anywhere.

Last time the company had a large work force on the property without union representation, they got major screwed. They were so angry, they voted in a union! The company treats it's employees like dirt with unions to protect us, they would treat us even worse without! The day to day work our union does to keep the company form violating all parts of our contract is enormous. The behind the scenes phone calls to management, scheduling supervisors, etc. is a never ending job. I know, I was there doing it.

I can hear you all now saying they violate our contract all the time anyway. Well, guess what, without your union reps going to bat for you, they would not even think twice about changing the rules as we go along. With the union, we have a contract, without we are at the mercy of a ruthless, greedy bunch of people who only think of how to make a buck and make us miserable at the same time.

 

[calibrator]

WAKE UP!

Take your eyes OFF the great American pass time..FOOTBALL, FOR A CHANGE AND ADDRESS YOUR POLITICAL LEADERS THAT HAVE A BLIND EYE TO THE REAL THEIVES IN AMERICA.

[post="241655"][/post]​

You're preaching to a bunch of sheep who just voted AGAIN to give away the farm. They don't want to help themselves so corporate America is helping themselves during their comatose state, until and if they wake up they are a waste of your energy.

 

[wench]

IMHO---DE-CERTIFY THE CWA>>>>>

 

[Tim Nelson]

:huh: Just thought that this would be a great poll to start, to see if any pilots, FA's, fleet service, Customer Service, and Mechanics , think that Usairways employees would be better off without their union. At this point, are they really useful to us? Are we getting any value from our dues? If this poll indicates that we all want to rid the company of unions, how would we go about it?

[post="241593"][/post]​

The IAM has no usefullness to FSA. 700 is wrong about 1992. 1992 was horrible but the FSA had almost twice the benefits, 3 x the retirement as what the IAM agreement now has. Heck, wages alone were even better. I don't know what 700 is smoking but it is some gooooood stuff! His whole illusion that union dues are tax deductable so the contract is 'free' does harm to good sound thinking.

How do you go about removing the deadwood IAM or other unions?

First off, at least for FSA, I'm not sure replacing the IAM is the answer since the new IAM agreement is 'a big mess'...full blown if you will...and it is better to just scrap the contract since no union is worth keeping around for over $500 a year to service a chapter 7 contract. Agreed?

But to answer your question. The AGW, www.the-agw.org will be doing a decert campaign to remove the full blown contract from FSA once the company exits chapter 11. The AGW, by constitution, exists to improve working conditions. IMO, the IAM/AFLCIO exists to be a political organization to serve the extreme left wing elements of our society. Clearly not representative of good hard working families.

Unfortunately, the only way to improve working conditions for FSA is to eliminate the chapter 7 contract. To do this you must vote for 'no union' in an election, which thereby eliminates the chains of a contract that will run through 2013 with only a 3% raise, no improvements, no nothing.

Explicitly, what this means is that the AGW will be running a campaign and instructing workers NOT to vote for the AGW. The AGW would get nothing out of it except the chance to build trust in the hope that workers would then turn to the AGW after the contract is abolished. If the AGW were all about money it would tell workers to vote for it, however, speaking for the AGW, it is beyond us to pimp workers for over $500 a year for a contract that is a big mess and quite frankly not worth your money. You don't need to pay a union over $500 a year to get this 'package'. I mean, do you really need to pay $4,000+ over the next 8 or so years for this?

Contact the AGW if you feel compelled to replace your current union [TWU, IAM, CWA]. Right off hand, I think the CWA contract is a big mess also that is not worth keeping around once the company exits chapter 11. The AGW can't represent flight attendants or pilots but every other classification is covered under our constitution.

In the end, what ground workers must ask themselves is this, "Is your contract worth over $500 a year to keep?"

regards,

 

[700UW]

You had NO retirement after 1992 except your 401k.

Lets see Tim, you started your own union and filed short back in what 1990? Your actions caused yourself, and the rest of the fleet and customer service workers another year bar which the company did as what they pleased.

Then you tried to sell your address list to the Teamsters who refused to pay you or give you a job organizing.

Then your and Mr Pruitt started another union and appointed yourself grand poobas and you failed to garner enough support, so you decide to lay low and then you and Mike start AGW and appoint yourselves Grand Poobas once again. And once again you FAILED to garner enough support.

How many members do you have?

What kind of experience do you have negotiating contracts?

How many contracts do you have?

Where are you getting your funding from?

How many economists and lawyers do you have on staff?

Then you come up with the not so bright idea to try and decertify which will let the company do as they please once again, boy I would hate to be you if that ever happened, will the Witness Protection Program accept you?

Gee I guess a pension, vacation, and a retirement is not enough, guess you want PDOs and the kiss butt system into effect once again.

What you promote is total lunacy to let Mr Glass have free reign over your group once again.

There is not one thing good that could come out of being an employee at will once again. Guess you did not learn anything from 1992 till 1995.

Sheer lunacy IMHO.

 

[Seatacus]

You can't win either way with this company. Get rid of the union and the company has its way with you ( we've seen this already). Keep the union and the union looks out for its own interests (due collection), not the employees. All of our so called union benefits are only a byproduct of the union getting what they want.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You had NO retirement after 1992 except your 401k
How many members do you have?
What kind of experience do you have negotiating contracts?
How many contracts do you have?
Where are you getting your funding from?
How many economists and lawyers do you have on staff?

Then you come up with the not so bright idea to try and decertify which will let the company do as they please once again, boy I would hate to be you if that ever happened, will the Witness Protection Program accept you?

Gee I guess a pension, vacation, and a retirement is not enough, guess you want PDOs and the kiss butt system into effect once again.

What you promote is total lunacy to let Mr Glass have free reign over your group once again.

There is not one thing good that could come out of being an employee at will once again. Guess you did not learn anything from 1992 till 1995.

Sheer lunacy IMHO.

[post="241711"][/post]​

700, you throw around terms that are variable like 'IAM pension", 401k, etc.
As you know, there are several variations of IAM pensions. Some have greater company contributions and are pretty good plans, while others have minimum company participation and are aweful plans. Likewise, a 401k can be either good or bad depending on what is going in.

Now a little 'housekeeping' to clean up this history. The 401k was up to a 10% company contribution on every hour worked, including Overtime. It also did not discrimminate by part-time/full-time. The current IAM pension plan is dreadful indeed. The IAM helped the employees so much that they got the employees a retirement contribution that is up to 80% reduced. Another fact is that the IAM pension plan was so good that it was by itself a $47 million concession as part of the first concession package for fleet service. Do you understand this 700? I mean, disagreeing with me about whether or not a worker needs the IAM is a matter of opinion, but suggesting that FSA workers are more comfortable today than in 1992 is mind boggling. Wages, benefits, retirement, etc were better and there is no doubt about it. To be sure, they were horrible IMO, but when stacked up against the latest IAM missive they are GOLD.

But looking back isn't what this is all about is it? This thread is about looking forward. Now, you can slam me with falsehoods and the AGW with numbers but you fail to grasp the point. The AGW isn't going to be running the decert campaign by claiming the AGW has everything. We are not going to be saying Tim Nelson is King or the AGW is the best union on the planet...no, the AGW is going to be running the decert campaign by saying DON'T VOTE FOR THE AGW and it has no relevance as to whether the AGW has 0 members or 1 million under such a decert. To be sure, it isn't permissible for the AGW to seek to represent workers while at the same time collecting dues from them for a contract that is not worth paying dues. But,

The fundamental question that all FSA will have to ask themselves after US AIRWAYS gets out of bankruptcy is;

"Is my contract, signed in the context of chapter 7, worth $4,000 of my money in dues over the next 8 years, even if the company makes millions and is itself far removed from bankruptcy?"

I say no way...you say yes. But the majority will decide when it comes to pass.

regards,

 

[700UW]

Yea you are gonna go out and spend money to get them not to vote for your homemade union.

Gimme a break.