Has a deal been made?

[Airline Employee]

Does anyone think that it's very strange that AA filed for BK on November 29 at the time they were still in negotiations with the pilots union and also while they had $4,000,000,000 in the bank?They didn't even spin off Eagle yet. Something major, even sinister is going on. When I look back at some of the history of the legacy carriers I think I know what's going on.
Before AA bought TWA they told them to file BK first in order to get rid of the Caribou stranglehold. TWA paid off a lot of debt so that when they did file BK they didn't have any money.
Remember when NW & DL held talks in early 2005 about merging? Then they both filed for BK on the same day at the courthouse within one hour of each other. They had already decided to merge after NW slashed their workers' salaries. No one at NW wanted to merge with DL. In fact NW employees took a 20% paycut when Wolf was CEO because he threatened that if they didn't take the pay cut that he'd sell the airline to DL. Well we know the history of US trying to buy DL in BK. DL had a backroom deal to merge with NW.

CO was always anti-merger and didn't want to merge with United but they did however decide to join Star Alliance. But isn't it funny that the CEO of CO was replaced by Smisek who actually was in favor an a merger and came to an agreement in one week to merge with UA?

I think that Parker went to the Board of AA and made them a deal. "file Bankruptcy and then we'll merge and I'll offer you all jobs at the new company". It was an easy decision for the BOD to come to after the AA pilots refused to even allow a vote on that contract. Remember that AA & US admitted that they were in merger talks in 2009 and were also in talks to bring US into Oneworld. If AA wants US in Oneworld that eliminates the thought that some people have that US brings nothing to the table because if they bring nothing to the table then you don't need or want them in your alliance.

I believe that the BK was in the works for a while and they do have a deal with US Airways to merge weather nobody at AA wants to accept it or not. The Board decides that they will accept US Airways' offer, they want Arpey to stick around until the actual merger which is when US will run the show. But Arpey doesn't like that so he quits on November 29 and gets a new job the same day?? I don't believe that it's about his being against filing BK so he quits. I think the whole deal coming down is what he doesn't like. He could have kept his high paying job with all the bonuses. Arpey had to have known exactly what deal was coming down because he found a job the same day without any bonuses or golden parachute. This is exactly what Doug Parker wants. Since
Arpey has always been against the merger he won't be offered a job at the new company. Arpey is replaced by Horton, a guy who has been involved in mergers in the past and who is an acquaintence of Parker. AA files for BK with $4,000,000,000 in cash on hand? That's exactly what I see happening. I believe a deal has been made between AA & US They will merge after AA exits.

 

[prechilill]

Unbelievable, really, the AMR hysteria around here. There are plenty of good articles discussing why AMR filed and it was for the writeoff of certain leases along with dumping pensions- not to be bought by a second- tier airline with a lot less cash on hand. AMR has 4 billion in the bank, they are in complete control of their destiny through the CH11 proceeding which is in stark contrast to USAir's second bankruptcy where USAir had nothing to live off- they were done. AMR is far from that point.

 

[damajagua]

Sorry airline employee:

While you and a lot of people at US would love and benefit from a merger with
AA. I wouldn't hold my breath. When are the US pundits ever going to get it
thru their head that US does not bring value to AA. Sorry it ain't happening.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Like I said on another thread. It is about money. If those making the decisions can make a wad of cash by merging, they will merge. If they cannot, they won't.

The days of thinking about the employees long term future is gone. The BK is about money, nothing else. We saw that rear its head in our BK's, AA is just in the early stage of the pain. In this process what is good for the employees comes dead last.

 

[john john]

Sorry airline employee:

US does not bring value to AA.

And HP brought value to US

 

[etops1]

Does anyone think that it's very strange that AA filed for BK on November 29 at the time they were still in negotiations with the pilots union and also while they had $4,000,000,000 in the bank?They didn't even spin off Eagle yet. Something major, even sinister is going on. When I look back at some of the history of the legacy carriers I think I know what's going on.
Before AA bought TWA they told them to file BK first in order to get rid of the Caribou stranglehold. TWA paid off a lot of debt so that when they did file BK they didn't have any money.
Remember when NW & DL held talks in early 2005 about merging? Then they both filed for BK on the same day at the courthouse within one hour of each other. They had already decided to merge after NW slashed their workers' salaries. No one at NW wanted to merge with DL. In fact NW employees took a 20% paycut when Wolf was CEO because he threatened that if they didn't take the pay cut that he'd sell the airline to DL. Well we know the history of US trying to buy DL in BK. DL had a backroom deal to merge with NW.

CO was always anti-merger and didn't want to merge with United but they did however decide to join Star Alliance. But isn't it funny that the CEO of CO was replaced by Smisek who actually was in favor an a merger and came to an agreement in one week to merge with UA?

I think that Parker went to the Board of AA and made them a deal. "file Bankruptcy and then we'll merge and I'll offer you all jobs at the new company". It was an easy decision for the BOD to come to after the AA pilots refused to even allow a vote on that contract. Remember that AA & US admitted that they were in merger talks in 2009 and were also in talks to bring US into Oneworld. If AA wants US in Oneworld that eliminates the thought that some people have that US brings nothing to the table because if they bring nothing to the table then you don't need or want them in your alliance.

I believe that the BK was in the works for a while and they do have a deal with US Airways to merge weather nobody at AA wants to accept it or not. The Board decides that they will accept US Airways' offer, they want Arpey to stick around until the actual merger which is when US will run the show. But Arpey doesn't like that so he quits on November 29 and gets a new job the same day?? I don't believe that it's about his being against filing BK so he quits. I think the whole deal coming down is what he doesn't like. He could have kept his high paying job with all the bonuses. Arpey had to have known exactly what deal was coming down because he found a job the same day without any bonuses or golden parachute. This is exactly what Doug Parker wants. Since
Arpey has always been against the merger he won't be offered a job at the new company. Arpey is replaced by Horton, a guy who has been involved in mergers in the past and who is an acquaintence of Parker. AA files for BK with $4,000,000,000 in cash on hand? That's exactly what I see happening. I believe a deal has been made between AA & US They will merge after AA exits.

Glad you said it first ...

 

[nycbusdriver]

Unbelievable, really, the AMR hysteria around here. There are plenty of good articles discussing why AMR filed and it was for the writeoff of certain leases along with dumping pensions- not to be bought by a second- tier airline with a lot less cash on hand. AMR has 4 billion in the bank, they are in complete control of their destiny through the CH11 proceeding which is in stark contrast to USAir's second bankruptcy where USAir had nothing to live off- they were done. AMR is far from that point.

It all boils down to the creditors. Filing Chapter 11 basically takes control of the future direction of the company out of the hands of the BOD and management, and into the hands of the creditors who want their money, and secondarily to the stockholders. Chapter 11 is about "reorganization." The management will, no doubt, put out a Plan of Reorganization (POR) which will be assessed for viability by the creditors and their representative, the judge. There may be other PORs submitted, including bids by outside companies or investors whose plans may look even better to the creditors and stockholders, or maybe not.

I think $4 billion in the bank will help any management POR if there is sufficient funds and a plan to make the creditors whole. I don't know how much debt AA has outstanding, but that will likely be the deciding factor as to any approval of a POR. The creditors are first in line, and they pretty much control the future of AA through the bankruptcy court.

Whatever POR gets submitted, it must certainly address the loss of $100 million/month. That $100 million figure must be cut somewhere, no matter what happens. Some vendors might be squeezed, aircraft leases tweaked, etc. But the real target is the employees. As much as the AA employees might feel comfortable about that $4 billion in the bank, they can forget about it. The savings will be taken out on their backs...and you can take THAT to the bank. (Pun intended.)

 

[autofixer]

A merger makes me cringe as an employee. What happens to PHX? What happens to expansion out of CLT with the big Latin American operation out of MIA? What happens if AMR parks all of those MD-80s? The list goes on and on and none of it is good for employees of LCC or AMR. Let's hope there is NO merger.

 

[etops1]

A merger makes me cringe as an employee. What happens to PHX? What happens to expansion out of CLT with the big Latin American operation out of MIA? What happens if AMR parks all of those MD-80s? The list goes on and on and none of it is good for employees of LCC or AMR. Let's hope there is NO merger.

See , but that's the problem . They don't care about the employees . It's money we are talking about here . Mergers are never good for the employees .

 

[Keroseneuser]

A merger makes me cringe as an employee. What happens to PHX? What happens to expansion out of CLT with the big Latin American operation out of MIA? What happens if AMR parks all of those MD-80s? The list goes on and on and none of it is good for employees of LCC or AMR. Let's hope there is NO merger.

Agreed. It would probably come down to where the higher yields were. Lots of competition in MIA so that "might" give CLT an edge in keeping a good bit of the caribbian stuff. Latin america probably not so much simply due to the shorter flight times would open latin america up to a larger selection of aircraft that can do it. I cannot come up with any scenario that would keep PHX as a hub in an AA merger. Dallas and their stuff in CA i don't think would bode well for that. PHL I think has a much higher yield than the Newyork airports do. But as we all know JFK is kinda THE hub for people coming and going to the big apple from a large part of the world. That might come down to which one is better for getting pax connected to their final destination if that destination is NOT New York.

Realistically any AA scenario probably means PHX and CLT would take massive hits. However AA has made stabs at a hub in NC before such as Raleigh. So CLT might have an in there since it could be used as an ATL Delta alternative.

But then ther are about 3 zillion other things to consider along with all this.

 

[Kittyhawk]

Sorry airline employee:

While you and a lot of people at US would love and benefit from a merger with
AA. I wouldn't hold my breath. When are the US pundits ever going to get it
thru their head that US does not bring value to AA. Sorry it ain't happening.

Whats in it for AA is irrellevant, It's is US aquiring AA, according to the many unofficial reports. So what AA gets out of it really is not a concern for US. Just Sayin

 

[etops1]

Whats in it for AA is irrellevant, It's is US aquiring AA, according to the many unofficial reports. So what AA gets out of it really is not a concern for US. Just Sayin

They seem not to get that out of their AArogant little heads .

 

[prechilill]

Whatever POR gets submitted, it must certainly address the loss of $100 million/month. That $100 million figure must be cut somewhere, no matter what happens. Some vendors might be squeezed, aircraft leases tweaked, etc. But the real target is the employees. As much as the AA employees might feel comfortable about that $4 billion in the bank, they can forget about it. The savings will be taken out on their backs...and you can take THAT to the bank. (Pun intended.)

I believe the creditor's list is pretty short, probably the only items being targeted are inflated leases on some MD80s and maybe canning some Embraer jets earlier than contracted. The employees are the main target of this bankruptcy and the management made no bones about advertising that- "agree to our terms and we won't file, otherwise tell it to the judge". Unlike the USAir second BK and AWA's BK (which Conway ran the company completely out of cash before filing), this one with AMR is just a manipulation of BK protections to screw with labor. One of the biggest problems Wolf had at your company was not cancelling the pensions in the first BK which ultimately happening in BK2 anyway when you guys were days away from running out of cash or when AWA filed in 1991 inviting in the TPG reign of terror... AMR is nowhere near that point.

 

[Phoenix]

Whats in it for AA is irrellevant, It's is US aquiring AA, according to the many unofficial reports. So what AA gets out of it really is not a concern for US. Just Sayin

Oh no, not the America West mindset of... "We saved your sorry butts, You are lucky to have a job, Sit down and shut up, keep your feet off the furniture, Be grateful you can lick our boots, Thank us now!"

Can we at least wait until they close the PHX crew base.

 

[damajagua]

A merger makes me cringe as an employee. What happens to PHX? What happens to expansion out of CLT with the big Latin American operation out of MIA? What happens if AMR parks all of those MD-80s? The list goes on and on and none of it is good for employees of LCC or AMR. Let's hope there is NO merger.

I agree. Let's hope there is no mergers indeed.