Good to be the King!

[flaptrack]

[blockquote]
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On 2/17/2003 6:12:13 PM flydcoop wrote:

WOW! Flap-CRACK! You must be one of those Republican Union members...good-luck!

You're right up there with Log Cabin Republicans!

I would prefer to be Independent but however I can cause the "most damage" is where I belong.

Yeah, right, John Ward has access to the corporate jet...

Please state your job/position in AA so we can truly "know" who you are...

----------------
[/blockquote]
Yes in fact I listened to Rush today; and I also voted for George Bush --- so I guess I must be a Republican!

A question for you --- oh wise one ---who gave you the Airline Deregulation Act?. A Republican or a Liberal?


(10 points for the correct answer and 20 points if you can name the President and the political parties that were in control of the House and Senate at that time.)

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Yes, perhaps it would have been better if he had waited, but as more trickles in thru the grapevine (and from Grapevine) on this, it sounds like he wasn't even aware that the flight was oversold. Maybe true, maybe not.

When I had VP's on my flights, they usually spent no more time in the gate area than it took to make a beeline for the jetbridge door, and I don't think that has changed. Same thing with VIP's -- shuffled onboard by special services as quickly as possible.

So, unless someone can tell me the gate agents and/or CSM asked him to give up his seat to avoid an oversale, this is all just useless speculation...

 

[TWAnr]

[blockquote]
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On 2/19/2003 12:57:05 PM KCFlyer wrote:

From what I read he did buy positive space, if one is to believe the evil eolesen. Then he gets dissed because he bought postive space but expects an F class upgrade at the gate, or he bought positive space at 30 day advance fares and should have paid full fare. No matter how you slice it - he can't win.

----------------
[/blockquote]

He did NOT buy positive space. He was meal listed for positive space in coach thirty days in advance (the rest of us list for flights on a space available basis). It was for coach, because his son is too young to pass ride in First Class. Had he purchased tickets, the age restriction for accommodating his son in the front cabin would not have applied. What Eric wrote was that the trip was considered as imputed income for Mr. Carty because revenue passengers were denied boarding in order to accommodate him and his family. Yes, he is entitled to do so by the terms of his contract of employment, but this episode did not contribute to employee morale which is sorely lacking. It would have been much better for public relations had he waited two and a half hours for the next flight which was open.

[blockquote]
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On 2/19/2003 216 PM MrMarky wrote:

And employees have no room to talk. Sure, we'll hear stories about how you paid for this flight and paid for that flight. But everybody knows that by and large, you fly for free or pretty close to it, often in first class . . .

How many passengers can tell stories about being denied an upgrade and then when making your way back to coach seeing uniformed employees sitting in the first class seats you couldn't get.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Marky,

Other than dead heading crews, without whom other flights will not be able to operate, employees traveling on company business and those traveling on special authorization for legitimate family emergencies, NO mere mortal employees can ever displace revenue passengers off any flight.

Yet, there have been numerous times when paying passengers stood by for earlier flights than those for which they were booked and bumped me to later flights or even caused me to cancel trips. I did not complain because those are the rules by which we travel.

Yes, there have been times, over the years, that I and uniformed employees were seated in Business or First class while paying passengers were denied upgrades. All those instances, without an exception, were due to the passenger not qualifying for the upgrade, mostly because of the fare basis of the ticket or other restrictions. Would you believe it, people trying to bend the rules and then become upset when they are not successful? I vividly remember several instances when an agent advised the in flight crew not to honor an in flight request for an upgrade by an irate passenger and explained the reasons for it; a short time into the flight that same passenger will demand to be upgraded.

 

[KCFlyer]

[blockquote]
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On 2/19/2003 5:22:46 PM TWAnr wrote:

He did NOT buy positive space. He was meal listed for positive space in coach thirty days in advance (the rest of us list for flights on a space available basis). It was for coach, because his son is too young to pass ride in First Class. Had he purchased tickets, the age restriction for accommodating his son in the front cabin would not have applied. What Eric wrote was that the trip was considered as imputed income for Mr. Carty because revenue passengers were denied boarding in order to accommodate him and his family. Yes, he is entitled to do so by the terms of his contract of employment, but this episode did not contribute to employee morale which is sorely lacking. It would have been much better for public relations had he waited two and a half hours for the next flight which was open.

[/blockquote]

I still maintain he could have avoided all kinds of employee ill will had he simply flown on Delta.

 

[flaptrack]

[blockquote]
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On 2/18/2003 6:38:20 AM Hopeful wrote:

Key Flaptrack: Are you that naive to believe ONE man runs AA? There are a slew of people who drudge through equipment and flight scheduling. If Carty was solely responsible for scheduling and running AA, then there is no way in the world that he could ever take a vacation, no could there?


Hey Hopeful
Are you that naive to believe ONE man on an an Airplane will ruin your company?

 

[will fix for food]

[blockquote]
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On 2/19/2003 6:33:18 PM KCFlyer wrote:

I still maintain he could have avoided all kinds of employee ill will had he simply flown on Delta.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Oh come on...if the CEO of AMR paid to fly on Delta to a city that AMR served the uproar would be a million times worse. That would appear so bad I bet that would even have a chance of making it into the mainstream media.

All he should have done is either pay for a ticket or D2 like the rest of us.

 

[Hopeful]

Hey flaptrack:

One man runs the company and calls the all important shots! He and he alone is the one on Capitol Hill going on and on how the RLA should be changed and how airline unions should not be allowed to strike. There is no way in hell that one person can do all the flight scheduling and equipment moves. It takes quite a few people.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Oh, I think people realize how it is viewed by the front line. It doesn't mean that everyone thinks it deserves as much attention as you do, though.

Again, I find it sad that people think that this is what we as an airline need to be focusing our attention on.

It was such a major event, it got zero coverage from the Dallas Morning News, the Fort Worth Star Telegram, or any of the local TV stations, and they hate AMR more than some of y'all appear to.

This gives people something concrete to piss and moan and vent over, so, go ahead and get it out of your system, and let's move on...

 

[Mach85ER]

This was an absolute pathetic example of leadership.

We are fighting for our jobs and existence then he pulls this move.

"The poor guy didn't know it was a full flight"

I wanted to go somewhere with my kids the same days chosen by Carty. It was Valentines day on a friday with the President's Day weekend to PVR. I knew before I even looked that my options were, barely make it anywhere and back, or buy tickets. For the CEO of an AIRLINE to play dumb on this one is incredible.

This same man was part of the core team that had the media in a hysteria leading up to the APA pilot's strike in 1997 because of the same busy holiday weekend and the inconvienence those on all the full flights would suffer. Our last VP of flight used to tell us that he was convinced that the senior VP's at CP didn't seem to know they were running an airline. No kidding.

He could have set the example by riding in the cockpit or pulling out the credit card. It wouldn't have got the press his act did, but leadership counts.

Personally as a pilot, this move is something I would have expected out of the guy. It also wouldn't change any deals that may get done from my own view. What digusts me is the corrosive effect this move has on the mechanics, FA's, ground crews and agents. I have already witnessed this chitstorm in full hurricane force Monday AM at Miami. The mechanics had the printouts, the FA's were pissed and I'm sure the ground guys knew too. This went down 4000 miles in South America too.

Some here don't seem too realize how bad this appears to the line employees.

 

[KCFlyer]

[blockquote]
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On 2/19/2003 6:58:25 PM will fix for food wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/19/2003 6:33:18 PM KCFlyer wrote:

I still maintain he could have avoided all kinds of employee ill will had he simply flown on Delta.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Oh come on...if the CEO of AMR paid to fly on Delta to a city that AMR served the uproar would be a million times worse. That would appear so bad I bet that would even have a chance of making it into the mainstream media.

All he should have done is either pay for a ticket or D2 like the rest of us.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Okay then, he should have just chartered a jet. I am convinced that even if he had paid double the first class fare for each passenger in his group, there are many who would resent him for taking a vacation on a popular long weekend, since it would have not allowed a valued customer to have his seats. As I said - the man just cannot win.

 

[Veritas]

[blockquote]
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On 2/19/2003 818 PM eolesen wrote:

...so, go ahead and get ahead and get it out of your system, and let's move on...
----------------
[/blockquote]

An acknowledgment by Carty that this was a case of bad judgment will be a good start toward that end.

 

[jj]

Why didnt Don do like all of us and pull up the load and then just find another day to go.Im sure he can arrange his vac. anytime he wants. He would have avoided this whole fiasco.

 

[bagsmasher]

"An acknowledgment by Carty that this was a case of bad judgment will be a good start toward that end."


That's the same thing I would like him to do about his TWA mistake. But what does he do? He goes to STL and calls the purchase a "watershed". Thanks Don, if that was our high point, we are really in trouble.

 

[FibberMcGee]

Bagsmasher, your record is stuck again. Give it a nudge will you.

 

[FrugalFlyer]

Don & family could have avoided this fiasco by booking their vacation to CANADA. At this time of year there is no way any pax would have been bumped from a DFW-YYZ flight!