GM TRIES TO COPY AA

[Garfield1966]

The UAW supported AMFA and I supported the UAW by buying an American made Ford and GMC.
Why anyone would buy a Toyota "sludgemobile" ,Honda "automatic destruct transmission" or a Nissan "faulty rear axle"is beyond me.

I wish the UAW the best in their strike. Someone has to draw the line somewhere.

I guess that must be why US automakers are loosing market share and foreign auto makes are gaining market share and making money.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

And AA isn't that far behind in shrinkage.

The UAW is in a much more precarious spot than airline workers because as you have pointed out cars can be made anywhere, that makes their fight even more corageous, instead of just rolling over they fight, unlike the airline unions, that are in a much better position since the majority of airline work can not be done remotely, who simply let the companies take whatever they wanted and eliminate a large percentage of the workforce. I believe the total for the industry was in the hundreds of thousands of jobs lost.

Bob - I must disagree, airline employees are in a more precarious position because:
1) while Ford/GM/Chrysler are losing market share and closing USA plants Honda/Toyota/Nissan are gaining market share and opening plants in the USA - therefore more or less maintaining 'auto worker' jobs
2) I think the day is coming, in the not too distant future when an airline like AC, for example, will offer tickets for YYZ-ORD-LGA-YUL on their own aircraft with mostly thier own FOREIGN employees. You can subsititute BA or LH or AF for AC - and the only jobs for USA ariline workers will be ground handling etc. at the airport. USA already has open skies with many countries, it is only a matter of time before cabbotage is allowed.
3) as much as I don't like the UAW they are a very effective union for their members - getting high compensation for low skill - and the auto workers are not divided like unions in the airline industry

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I guess that must be why US automakers are loosing market share and foreign auto makes are gaining market share and making money.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

It's all about marketing. Dumb bleeding heart liberals think they are saving the world by buying crappy foreign cars.

 

[Kev3188]

I sure don't think I'm "saving the world" by owning a Subaru...I just want a car that goes when I need it to.

Every American car I've ever owned has had serious reliability problems. None of the imports I've owned have failed me yet.

As for poor mgmt. decisions at GM, lest we forget the Pontiac Aztec. Yeeesh.

 

[Garfield1966]

It's all about marketing. Dumb bleeding heart liberals think they are saving the world by buying crappy foreign cars.

Being one of those " Dumb bleeding heart liberals" my self I was hoping you could clear something up for me.

Is it better to buy a Chrysler that is made in Mexico using parts manufactured all over the world or is it better to buy a Toyota or Mercedes made here in the US by US workers but using parts that are not necessarily manufactured in the US.

Also, I am curious. Where are all the electronics, clothing, and all the other nic-nacks in your house manufactured? I would assume you only buy high quality US manufactured goods right?

I might be wrong but I think when most folks are getting ready to spend $15k or more on an item (a car comes to mind most of them are more concerned about getting a quality product rather than something that is "saving the world" (see above post). That may be the reason that Chrysler is offering a life time drive train warranty. I am pretty sure they did not offer it to be "a nice corporation". They did it because they have a product which is designed like a piece of crap and put together like a piece of crap just like their counter parts at GM and Ford.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I sure don't think I'm "saving the world" by owning a Subaru...I just want a car that goes when I need it to.

Every American car I've ever owned has had serious reliability problems. None of the imports I've owned have failed me yet.

As for poor mgmt. decisions at GM, lest we forget the Pontiac Aztec. Yeeesh.

I've been satisfied with my American-made (assembled) automobiles, so I won't buy foreign (EU or Japan). But at the same time I will not buy an Aztec either.

BTW - I don't know if it is just me, but I saw (still sometime see) more Aztecs in Canada (ON) than in USA (MI, OH, NY, PA, NJ, MD, VA, DC, DE).

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Being one of those " Dumb bleeding heart liberals" my self I was hoping you could clear something up for me.

Is it better to buy a Chrysler that is made in Mexico using parts manufactured all over the world or is it better to buy a Toyota or Mercedes made here in the US by US workers but using parts that are not necessarily manufactured in the US.

I was referencing tree huggers who buy & drive hybrids (including SUVs) whose componets (such as the Ni batteries) are shipped from various regions of the world first to Japan (or whatever country it is assembled) and then the finished car is shipped across the ocean to USA.

 

[Garfield1966]

Are you saying that hybrids technology does not help the environment or are you saying you will not buy hybrid technology because it comes from abroad even if it is good for the environment?


So in response to my question are you saying:

As long as the car is assembled here in the US it's OK so under those guidelines it would be OK to buy a Toyota, Honda, Mercedes or BMW since there are assembled here in the US.

By the way, can you please explain for us not too bright liberal folk what the difference is in buying a US vehicle made with foreign made computer parts and a hybrid that uses batteries manufactured abroad?

 

[MCDP]

I sure don't think I'm "saving the world" by owning a Subaru...I just want a car that goes when I need it to.

Every American car I've ever owned has had serious reliability problems. None of the imports I've owned have failed me yet.

As for poor mgmt. decisions at GM, lest we forget the Pontiac Aztec. Yeeesh.

Well, I for one only buy American brands. Why, beacuse the money stays in the country. Besides, I have had way better reliability and quality with the last four GM products I have purchased than the last two Toyotas. Those two cars were very dissappointing when it came to being reliable and the quality was not there. I will never own another Toyota for this reason.

 

[Garfield1966]

Well, I for one only buy American brands. Why, beacuse the money stays in the country. Besides, I have had way better reliability and quality with the last four GM products I have purchased than the last two Toyotas. Those two cars were very dissappointing when it came to being reliable and the quality was not there. I will never own another Toyota for this reason.

Just curious. What brand and model do you own and have owned?

 

[Vortilon]

I sure don't think I'm "saving the world" by owning a Subaru...I just want a car that goes when I need it to.

Every American car I've ever owned has had serious reliability problems. None of the imports I've owned have failed me yet.

As for poor mgmt. decisions at GM, lest we forget the Pontiac Aztec. Yeeesh.

Just curious, do all Subarus come with rainbow flags and equal rights stickers? They do seem to be popular with those folks. :mellow:

 

[operaations]

Just curious, do all Subarus come with rainbow flags and equal rights stickers? They do seem to be popular with those folks. :mellow:

What does that have to do about anything.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Are you saying that hybrids technology does not help the environment or are you saying you will not buy hybrid technology because it comes from abroad even if it is good for the environment?
So in response to my question are you saying:

As long as the car is assembled here in the US it's OK so under those guidelines it would be OK to buy a Toyota, Honda, Mercedes or BMW since there are assembled here in the US.

By the way, can you please explain for us not too bright liberal folk what the difference is in buying a US vehicle made with foreign made computer parts and a hybrid that uses batteries manufactured abroad?

1) I'm of the opinion that when it comes to the environment the key is not what you drive (hybrid vs. conventional) but how much you drive. Tree huggers don't seem to understand this.

2) I'm of the opinion that hybrids can do as much - if not more harm to the environment than non-hybrids (of comparable size catagory, not talking about a Prius vs. Hummer).

3) Also as long as I'm living in USA (or North America - for auto purposes I'm clumping Canada and USA together) I will chose to buy cars from USA-based manufactures assembled / made in North America. I've done it thus far and I don't have any problems with my vehicle (Ford). Like I said - it is my choice and will continue to be that way until the imports make something that is far more superior or my vehicle turns out to be a lemon.

4) I have a feeling you will next ask me whether I chose to buy clothing, electronics, etc. from USA-based companies or whether I shop at Wal Mart, etc. etc. etc. I don't want to discuss that right now - mainly because clothing, furniture, electronics, etc. the situation is more complicated (USA based companies having their goods made by China, etc.).

 

[Garfield1966]

One other thing I would like to point out. Both you and Frugal have indicated that you have had good experiences with US brand vehicles. Good for you. Something you might want to look into is something called statistics. This is where a certain number of people are polled on a certain issue, say auto reliability for instance. The pollster takes the data and compiles some sort of average.

According to the JDPower ratings, Mercury was 8th in over all quality. That was the only US manufacture to break into the top 10. GM started at 13th with Buick, and Chevy. Statistically, you will be more likely to get a quality car with Lexus, Honda, Infinity than with a US manufacture.

The point is that there is a reason that US manufactures are doing so poorly. The quality of the products used to suck, now it merely stinks as they are improving ever so slightly.

BTW, is it OK to buy an Opel? It is a GM car manufactured abroad for foreign consumption. Which begs the question. Ford is bring the Opel Astra to the US as a Ford. Can I buy that? I think it is manufactured in a German plant (not sure though). Or maybe I can buy a X or S type Jag since they do use Ford platforms. I know I can't by a PT Cruiser since they are manufactured in Mexico but if I cannot buy that then I guess I cannot buy the Ford/Opel Astra either since it is not made in the US.

OH yea, one more question. What percentage of parts in a car need to be US? How do I treat it if the engine was made abroad? It's only 1 part but it’s a really big part.

I'm so confused.

How about this, you just give me a list of cars that meet your "US made" requirements and I'll choose my next car from that list.

I'm just some dumb liberal so please be patient. We are a bit slower then you smart conservative union folk.

 

[Garfield1966]

1) I'm of the opinion that when it comes to the environment the key is not what you drive (hybrid vs. conventional) but how much you drive. Tree huggers don't seem to understand this.

2) I'm of the opinion that hybrids can do as much - if not more harm to the environment than non-hybrids (of comparable size catagory, not talking about a Prius vs. Hummer).

3) Also as long as I'm living in USA (or North America - for auto purposes I'm clumping Canada and USA together) I will chose to buy cars from USA-based manufactures assembled / made in North America. I've done it thus far and I don't have any problems with my vehicle (Ford). Like I said - it is my choice and will continue to be that way until the imports make something that is far more superior or my vehicle turns out to be a lemon.

4) I have a feeling you will next ask me whether I chose to buy clothing, electronics, etc. from USA-based companies or whether I shop at Wal Mart, etc. etc. etc. I don't want to discuss that right now - mainly because clothing, furniture, electronics, etc. the situation is more complicated (USA based companies having their goods made by China, etc.).

1. interesting opinion. If I drive a Hummer 100 miles a week and I drive a Prius or Focus 100 miles a week, which is worse for the environment? Given the same amount of miles a more fuel efficient vehicle is going to do less damage than a less efficient vehicle. Also, in order for the hybrids to become more efficient, there has to be a market for them to encourage the manufactures to improve the product. The more people who buy them, the more the companies will invest in their R&D

2. What is your opinion based on? My opinion is the world is flat. It means nothing with out a definition.

3. see my post above and below. US manufactures make things abroad and import things from abroad. How does this fit in with buying "US".

4. Fair enough but what do you think Car makers are doing? The PT Cruiser is made in MX. The Ford Astra is made in Germany and will be imported as Focus I believe.