savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
USA320 is just pushing his agenda. Savy
Fragmentation Or Liquidation?
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
FA Mikey said:
I think he WAS first in line. Didn't that get resolved upon emergence? How can the Chairman of the Board also be a creditor?
USA320Pilot said:
As you probably know NW is giving its excess DCA slots back to US Airways (they had them back in 2001) rather than Delta (they outbid US in late 2001) who had been using them to fly RJs to Florida and the mid-Atlantic (DL is moving the flights to IAD by the way). US is attempting to buy these slots from NW and has gone as far as seeking DOT approval of the transfer of ownership according to AvDaily. As of now NW and US have agreed on a short term lease of the slots until April while the DOT studies the issue. THIS PART IS A REPORTED FACT.
The *rumor* has been that US will give NW A320s (leased or not) in some number as compensation which NW will use to park DC-9s. I would expect this to be a non-cash transaction since US Airways doesn't have two nickels to rub together and NW ain't taking an IOU.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #22
MrAeroMan,
It's my understanding that the DIP financing is in the history books also.
Bronner (RSA) does have outstanding claims as a creditor for 1/2 of the non-guaranteed portion of the ATSB-backed loan. Without pulling out the calculator and going back over the financial filings, it probably about $35 million. That appears safe at present (pending release of cash flow reports for the 3rd quarter, which depends largely on the IRS approval of the pension payment issue).
What is at risk today is the (technically) $240 million he (RSA) paid for equity. Of course, that $240 million is now worth something less than $100 million (and shrinking).
Jim
It's my understanding that the DIP financing is in the history books also.
Bronner (RSA) does have outstanding claims as a creditor for 1/2 of the non-guaranteed portion of the ATSB-backed loan. Without pulling out the calculator and going back over the financial filings, it probably about $35 million. That appears safe at present (pending release of cash flow reports for the 3rd quarter, which depends largely on the IRS approval of the pension payment issue).
What is at risk today is the (technically) $240 million he (RSA) paid for equity. Of course, that $240 million is now worth something less than $100 million (and shrinking).
Jim
Jim,
You're right but given the cash postion the company is in I'm sure liquidating would help recoup some of his money. The $700 million ATSB loan could be paid off with money left over and the rest could go towards the other creditors. He still stands to take a large loss but it won't be no where near the $275 million his butt is in hock for now. I'm sure when this is done he'll be done with airlines for a long time to come. Warren Buffett tried and failed with U so I don't know what Dr. Dave was thinking but he's no Warren Buffett.
Of course there are rumblings about the post chapter 11 filing. Don't know if you've heard them but it has a lot to do with setting up a new airline with existing UAIR equipment and flying current routes with a new name and a new group of lower paid employees. MESA is being mentioned in the same breath with this so time surely will tell.
You're right but given the cash postion the company is in I'm sure liquidating would help recoup some of his money. The $700 million ATSB loan could be paid off with money left over and the rest could go towards the other creditors. He still stands to take a large loss but it won't be no where near the $275 million his butt is in hock for now. I'm sure when this is done he'll be done with airlines for a long time to come. Warren Buffett tried and failed with U so I don't know what Dr. Dave was thinking but he's no Warren Buffett.
Of course there are rumblings about the post chapter 11 filing. Don't know if you've heard them but it has a lot to do with setting up a new airline with existing UAIR equipment and flying current routes with a new name and a new group of lower paid employees. MESA is being mentioned in the same breath with this so time surely will tell.
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
- 2,676
as far as dr bonner is, i dont think he can get anything in liquidation until the atsb-govt, then creditors, ge, canadiar-bombadier, embraer the employees (if we're lucky) then the dude from alabama. also i may have misunderstand but i had heard that in order for liquidation to take place now there virtually is no one willing to buy usairs equip etc. i could be wrong but i though that this is the way the whol system of liquidation goes.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
MrAeroMan said:
Warren Buffett got every penny of his investment back.
nycbusdriver said:
That may or may not be true, I'm not 100 percent either way but I know for a fact he has said his biggest investement blunder came when he met Ed Colodny in Nebraska and agreed to invest in U. Ed sold him a bag of goods just like he did all of those associated with him. Then, when his house of cards began to show stress signs he retired, took his massive golden parachute and now only has to decide which house he's going to live in during a particular time of the year. He got his and now his mismanagement roots are dying a slow agonizing death.
robbedagain said:
The company now has about 900 million in cash available. If they liquidate 700-725 million goes to ATSB. Bank of American and RSA split approximately 70 million. Creditors are next in line and the employees will be the last to see anything. There will be many buyers for UAIR's assets like LGA and DCA slots as well as terminal leases in places like those two airports. A/c will be returned to the owners and any remaining a/c owned by UAIR will be sold on the cheap. The rest of the equipment and assets will go for pennies on the dollar.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- Banned
- #28
Have we not established that US leases the LGA terminal from CO? If so, US or Bronner will have no choice but to relinquish it to CO who has stated before that they would like to expand their LGA oepration. Of course slots would help but a terminal is a good start - and a good way to keep another party from setting up shop right next to EWR.
The value for any asset sale is how quickly US can transfer assets to another carrier and get it up and running. The competitive environment is so tough that US will have a very small window before even the assets lose their value. Anyone want to guess how quickly an asset acquirer could set up shop and which ones they would focus on?
The value for any asset sale is how quickly US can transfer assets to another carrier and get it up and running. The competitive environment is so tough that US will have a very small window before even the assets lose their value. Anyone want to guess how quickly an asset acquirer could set up shop and which ones they would focus on?
MrAeroMan said:
Please quote your source for this. Bankrupcty laws dictate employees must be paid first or very near first for all time worked, unless I've been misinformed all this time. Severance, continuation of benefits, etc. will not exist in a liquidation.
