Federal Bailout $$ Billions, for the Airlines, with 'Conditions' ?

[dfw gen]

really? so, how big is southwest in bos/lga/jfk? southwest and alaska fly intl. to europe/s. america and asia??

sorry, if aa goes, then the others go.

no one here has given a scenario where aa gets cut off and somehow, delta and united plod on. right. if aa goes, so do the others

again hope your right, but i think you are being way to optimistic. American management has never endeared themselves to anybody, but well themelves.

 

[Kev3188]

really? so, how big is southwest in bos/lga/jfk? southwest and alaska fly intl. to europe/s. america and asia??

sorry, if aa goes, then the others go.

no one here has given a scenario where aa gets cut off and somehow, delta and united plod on. right. if aa goes, so do the others

For NYC, you could take AA and DL both out of the mix and still have a hub carrier at EWR in UAL. Doing the same exercise with each of these airlines gets you the same result.

For international, it’s the same story. Points not covered by any surviving carrier can be served by their JV partners.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

CremaDiLimone you are absolutely in a state of denial. I think your fear of the possible is blinding you to the practical. A 45 billion dollar debt load for a company with little revenue is a huge obstacle to overcome.

I promise you that makes absolutely no sense to anyone on this forum but you. I assure you no single airline is too big to fail. That only exist in your mind.

right, you have no clue what you are arguing. aa is not $45 billion in debt.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

again hope your right, but i think you are being way to optimistic. American management has never endeared themselves to anybody, but well themelves.

i'm optimistic that the govt. will help the airlines. i base that on what they have said and what they have done with action.

if the govt. didn't lift a finger to help the airline industry or remained silent on the airline industry, yes, i'd be very worried.

that's my argument. since the govt. helped in this unknown first phase, i can safely believe they will help again, if necessary, in sept., for a 2nd phase.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

For NYC, you could take AA and DL both out of the mix and still have a hub carrier at EWR in UAL. Doing the same exercise with each of these airlines gets you the same result.

For international, it’s the same story. Points not covered by any surviving carrier can be served by their JV partners.

really? that simple. ewr will serve both ewr and nyc. if the virus gets worse and persists AND the govt. walks away from the airlines, no airline will serve both ewr and nyc out of ewr.

that's one reason why the govt. will not allow the airlines to collapse.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

again hope your right, but i think you are being way to optimistic. American management has never endeared themselves to anybody, but well themelves.

what does that mean? since parker and isom haven't endeared themselves, that means the govt. will refuse to aid aa, but will aid everyone else? a ceo needs to endear himself to get aid?

look at how many governors give trump a rough time, yet, trump has to send them supplies.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

For NYC, you could take AA and DL both out of the mix and still have a hub carrier at EWR in UAL. Doing the same exercise with each of these airlines gets you the same result.

For international, it’s the same story. Points not covered by any surviving carrier can be served by their JV partners.

how could ua serve both ewr and nyc if you take aa and delta out of the mix? if you take aa and dl out of the mix, that means they went belly-up and that also means that ua will go belly-up.

this doesn't make sense to me.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

has anyone seen what the govt. has proposed in terms of repaying the payroll grants??

paying back 30% of what was given over a span of 5 years.

as of this moment, it looks as though the airline execs wish to negotiate that down. if not, aa will have to pay back 30% of $6 billion. $1.8 billion over 5 years, $350 million a year over 5 years.

very doable.

 

[Kev3188]

how could ua serve both ewr and nyc if you take aa and delta out of the mix?

Easy. Continue flying from EWR & LGA. Maybe open JFK back up depending on demand.

if you take aa and dl out of the mix, that means they went belly-up and that also means that ua will go belly-up.

No, it means that in this example, UAL came up with a successful long term plan of survival while AA & DL did not.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

CremaDiLimone you are absolutely in a state of denial. I think your fear of the possible is blinding you to the practical.

i don't argue that it's not impossible..i argue that it's extremely doubtful. the only way aa goes belly-up is if mngt. wants to go belly-up.

sure, people are fearful. employees are fearful.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

No, it means that in this example, UAL came up with a successful long term plan of survival while AA & DL did not.

when no one is flying, no airline can come up with a successful plan. the only plan is to get aid from the govt. and pay them pay back incrementally.

that is everyone's plan. united can't survive without the aid, just like everyone else. if united gets aid, so will aa and dl.

 

[Kev3188]

Carriers will get aid for existing post-October if they can prove they have a viable business plan going forward. These loans/grants/bailouts aren't automatic. remember, UAL was denied a loan after 9/11.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i don't believe that is any criteria for payroll grants and loans for operations.

the govt. has not publicly stated that and the airlines have not said that is a caveat.

if you've seen that, can you provide a link? even ground handling service companies have applied for govt. aid. they don't fly and they have absolutely no business plan, except for paying minimum airport wages and little or no benefits.

9-11 was 20 years ago.

 

[Kev3188]

I edited for clarity above.

 

[dfw gen]

what does that mean? since parker and isom haven't endeared themselves, that means the govt. will refuse to aid aa, but will aid everyone else? a ceo needs to endear himself to get aid?

look at how many governors give trump a rough time, yet, trump has to send them supplies.

you are way to optimistic. the federal govt is obligated to aid the states hence the state of emergency across all 50 states. if you think they are obligated to keep all the major airlines running your crazy. they will try but if one or two fail there are plenty of planes sitting around real cheap and plenty of workers sitting around waiting to help. your dreamin if you think that if it doesnt imrrove in six months everone stays on life support. hopefully it improves but if not choise will be made and aa balance sheet is not the healthiest and management is definetly not the best in the business.