FAs be vigiliant

[ClueByFour]

sky high states: My usual opinion. Should the public be made aware of terms like FFDO and LEO?

They were aware long before this bulletin board. LEO has been in common use since before most who post here were born, and FFDO was in every major newspaper immediately following the program's birth. Why do airline people seem to think that the public is incapable of simply watching and reading and figuring out common procedures? Or terms? And how do you figure you are any less secure by not having it discussed in the open? I guarantee the bad guys already know more about various facets of airline security than most employees do.

Hate to tell you this--security by obscurity does not work.

 

[ilg30/7]

*sigh* Of course you don't. It's because of this type of brain and tone deaf paranoia that it took the better part of 5 years (and half the industry laid off) after 9/11 for air travel to recover. It's why you will see a fall off in bookings and revenue now.

Does the impact of such paranoia (namely years of losses and layoffs) bother you?

That might actually have some credibility if 9/11 or the threats we've encountered since had never actually happened. As it is, however, the surest way for the layoffs and losses to get worse is for there to be another incident - especially as a result of lax security.

And on another level.... I do find it amazingly bankrupt to expect a flight crew to not react to a percieved threat and compromise their safety and the safety of their aircraft for something as ambiguous and impersonal as the financial health of the industry.

 

[ilg30/7]

Ever question a woman about her purse? I see purses going into the lavs on every flight. They prohibited?

The guy's answer to "what's in the bag" should have been "None of your business. Now get me another beer."

Potential terrorist? Someone (actually a lot of people) needs to get over their inflated sense of self-importance.

You'll have to explain to me exactly how "recognizing that threats exist" = "An inflated sense of self imprtance."

The same people that complain about purses going into lavs are the ones who complain about TSA patting down grandma at the security checkpoint. Simply put, context matters. The same instinct that tells you that its silly for the TSA to hassle granny is the same one that tells you that it's ok for her to carry her purse into a lav. A young arab speaking male with a brown paper bag? that's a different story. I hope we never submit our sense of caution to the PC police. If so, however, do it on the cautious side. Ban granny from taking that purse too.

It does amaze me that after 5 years and countless examples to the contrary, some folks still want to believe there is no threat.

 

[FWAAA]

sky high states: My usual opinion. Should the public be made aware of terms like FFDO and LEO?

Thanks for the laugh!

To add to Clue's post, here's the TSA's webpages describing the FFDO program:

https://tsatesting.net/ffdo/

Here's some Congressional subcommittee hearing documents about it:

http://www.house.gov/transportation/aviati...-08-03memo.html

I'm not even going to address the acronym "LEO," since that's been in common use for decades.

And you think that mentioning the terms "FFDO" and "LEO" endanger (or are even remotely related to) aircraft security?

Wow.

 

[N965VJ]

Anyone have a link to a related news story?

I would figure there would be one if something fishy was going on. Otherwise, it has the quality of someone creating an urban myth based on current conditions.

Good point, considering the OP’s tendency to lecture us.

 

[ClueByFour]

And on another level.... I do find it amazingly bankrupt to expect a flight crew to not react to a percieved threat and compromise their safety and the safety of their aircraft for something as ambiguous and impersonal as the financial health of the industry.

The problem is in the perception of the threat. If you run around perceiving enough threats that are not, nobody flies and the industry dies.

The same people that complain about purses going into lavs are the ones who complain about TSA patting down grandma at the security checkpoint. Simply put, context matters. The same instinct that tells you that its silly for the TSA to hassle granny is the same one that tells you that it's ok for her to carry her purse into a lav. A young arab speaking male with a brown paper bag? that's a different story. I hope we never submit our sense of caution to the PC police. If so, however, do it on the cautious side. Ban granny from taking that purse too.

If you ban granny's purse, the industry (and air travel in general) is dead. Nobody will put up with it.

It does amaze me that after 5 years and countless examples to the contrary, some folks still want to believe there is no threat.

Take the liquid thing: if you look in the link I posted above, you would practically have to take a chemistry lab in whole into the lav in conjunction with pounds of ice to actually synthesize explosive. Which may or may not actually have the power to bring down the plane.

Or, one could simply cram a few pounds of C4 into one's underwear (forget the shoes) and do the deed from their seat.

We have yet to be able to eliminate the latter thread (although the puffer and ETD wipes help). But granny can't take a liter of water or a bottle of ponds onto the plane.

There are threats. The actions that we are currently taking (and the paranoia displayed by some here) do absolutely nothing to increase security. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

 

[USstew23]

Whomever posted that to the AFA website needs to take advantage of whatever EAP is available to them. Irrational paranoia has no place among professionals.

Are you flipping kidding me? I actually made the mistake of thinking you were a person with half a brain, obviously I was wrong!!! The funny thing is that I am no more paranoid than any other sensible person but if that crew had a feeling that something was wrong then they had every right to raise hell, I'm not sure what reality you are living in lately or if you live in one at all but did it ever occur to you that some of us have families and loved ones at home awaiting our safe return. Maybe you should put yourself in their shoes.

 

[ilg30/7]

There are threats. The actions that we are currently taking (and the paranoia displayed by some here) do absolutely nothing to increase security. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

And you know this how, exactly? I take it as fairly strong evidence that the British suspects in the most recent case left martyr tapes. It seems they were intending to do something. That the recent threat was apparantly thwarted does not mean it didn't exist, nor does it mean we shouldn't take prudent steps to make it more difficult for such attacks to succeed in the future.

It seems some in here suffer from the "I am the world" fallacy. I'M not trying to sneak anything bad on board an aircraft, therefore nobody is and the TSA is a waste of time. I'M never going to take anything that might be dangerous into an aircraft lavatory, therefore nobody will and flight crews that become suspicious over such behavior are merely being paranoid.

 

[ClueByFour]

And you know this how, exactly? I take it as fairly strong evidence that the British suspects in the most recent case left martyr tapes. It seems they were intending to do something. That the recent threat was apparantly thwarted does not mean it didn't exist, nor does it mean we shouldn't take prudent steps to make it more difficult for such attacks to succeed in the future.

You will note those attacks were thwarted before the recent insanity about liquid, for instance. You realize that means that the attacks were stopped without disarming someone of a bottle of water purchased post-security, a bottle of mosturizer, or a can of soda.

You may think it's apropos that we all fly naked after a full body scan. In the name of security, of course. Prudent steps, natch. I'd submit to you that if things continue towards that end that you won't have a job and people won't fly.

But we will be safe. A poodle encased in a block of lucite is a very secure poodle. Unfortunately, it's useless--as will the national air transit system if this crap continues.

It seems some in here suffer from the "I am the world" fallacy. I'M not trying to sneak anything bad on board an aircraft, therefore nobody is and the TSA is a waste of time. I'M never going to take anything that might be dangerous into an aircraft lavatory, therefore nobody will and flight crews that become suspicious over such behavior are merely being paranoid.

No, I'm suggesting that none of this paranoia crap adds to security in any meaningful way. And you will note that, *rimshot*, that type of paranoia did not catch the most recent attack attempt. It's not a coincidence.

FAs are chasing people out of the lavs and soliciting LEO help to do so over a bag. Meanwhile, most of the cargo in the belly remains unscanned and uninspected (for instance). Which do you think is going to materially lower your chance of dying on an airplane?

 

[Travels2mch]

Or, one could simply cram a few pounds of C4 into one's underwear (forget the shoes) and do the deed from their seat.

Oh can you see if someone trys this? Then we'll be subject to full strip searches at the checkpoint. TSA advisory....please arrive at the airport 24 hours in advance of your flight to allow time to clear security!!

 

[flygirl74]

There is a story that was floating around a few years ago. The story(or urban myth) was that James Woods, the actor, was flying US and noticed some men of middle eastern descent acting suspiciously on his flight. Scared him enough that he called our company about it. This happened in Aug. 2001.
Anyone else hear of this or prove/disprove?

P.S. Anyone ever watch the Fifth Element? All the pax are put to sleep for the flight!!!!!!

 

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

Perhaps clue, there wouldn't have to spend hundreds of BILLIONS (no end in site) for IRAQ where those people are no more free and deomocratic than Lebanon, and use these moneis instead to secure our borders and create the equipment that would make our transportation system much more secure than it is today.

The IRAQIs as well as the Lebanon people are aligned with anyone or group who "shows them the money".

That's a fairly broad statement, isn't it? Should I (as a flight attendant) be profiled because I am dark complected have a Lebanese sir name? And for the record, no one has ever offered to "show me the money".

 

[N965VJ]

<SNIP> There is a story that was floating around a few years ago. The story(or urban myth) was that James Woods, the actor, was flying US and noticed some men of middle eastern descent acting suspiciously on his flight.

Snopes

 

[N109UW]

Came back from LGW the other day and a pax asked one of the F/A's why I was wearing an air marshall badge. She came back and asked me what she should tell the guy. I told her to tell him she couldn't talk about it. He said understood. Never know who is asking questions on out A/C these days.

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

Good point, considering the OP’s tendency to lecture us.

Good. I'm not the only skeptic in the house.

Once again, I ask, "Is there a link to a related story?"

Yeah, this one will probably be on Snopes.com sometime soon if there isn't any truth to it.