Fangs A Lot!

[nycbusdriver]

I'm not saying we must merge DOH, but it would make it easier for the West folks to realize that DOH is all that the East work groups know of, as that's how *every* merger involving this airline has worked.

EVERY?

Even with asterisked emphasis EVERY?

Did the Trump Shuttle merger go date-of-hire? Did I miss something?

EVERY???

 

[Phoenix]

Guys, we're all just little cogs...

Yess how true. One could also say "we are all just little bargaining chips."

The furloughed guys especially.

When it is time to cut costs then the senior chips see the value of letting the junior chips pay their dues. See ya. So sorry, there is just no more room in the boat.

However when it comes time to negotiate seniority WOW I HAVE AN EPIPHANY!!!! The furloughed guys and gals... THEY are bargaining chips!!! If we pick those chips back up and declare that the most junior "member of the USAir East family" (ya understand friends, we ARE family heh heh.) the most junior person at USAir East deserves Date Of Hire (DOH!! We are so brilliant!)

It is the SHOCK AND AWE negotiating position. We have to start negotiating from a position of demanding something that we are already agreed that we don't really need to keep any way (so that when we give it up we end up with what we wanted all along.)

So good or bad ideas are equally welcomed?

Touche'

 

[767jetz]

After a while it becomes obvious who's really at fault.
Wow....are you really saying that every US pilot is at fault? Or am I reading way more into it than what is there?

Yes. You are reading more into it. I clearly said it was a vocal minority that gives the overall voice of the group a bad tone. And is that same minority who always claim the same defenses and never see that they are the ones who are the problem.

Take a marriage for example. If two spouses approach every issue as a fight that has to be "won," then by default there is always a loser. And if one loses then they they both in effect lose. With such an approach the marriage is doomed to failure. Saying that everything is just posturing for position sets up a confrontational tone from the start, where compromise and finding winning solutions for both parties is impossible.

Based on the posts here, some are saying in effect... "Just take it to the judge." "We'll see you in court." "We're only interested in a solution that benefits us."

How do you expect the AWA pilots (or the UA pilots in 2000 for that matter) to react to that kind of approach?

 

[Phoenix]

Marriage squables used to compare Pilot(ALPA) squables? What an insult to marriage! Anything less than 100% for you and 0% for me just doesn't cut it in marriage!

 

[fly with US]

As long as pilots are flying the same plane as before, with the same pay....who really cares? I am sure all the MDA guys are appreciating this. Nothing like being furloughed for the fourth time, while the mainline pilots argue about a number. I guarantee you all that MDA pilots want is a mainline job again, preferably, not lower than a 2-year HP pilot.

Let's stop argueing like women (no offence) here and get something done.

 

[smmech]

Start focusing on the big picture. WE are the new USAir. DP said AWA would have been in Us easts shoes had they not done this deal. Together we are something...something that generated alot of money. It is what it is.
Regardless of names we have a chance to kick some LCC ass. We are a melting pot of a lot of airlines and yes DOH was all we had. If you have faith in DP prove it by seeing this airline grow. It will.

Ok lets kick some LCC ass like who? Jetblu, SWA... LOL we cant even take on Frountire(SP?) or Airtran...

Let me say this once again... AWA was fine with 6 quartarly profits until 1 year before this deal came around. DP could not be a big wig at AA or NWA and he hated that.. He wanted to be powerful and made AWA more likely to fail unless this deal went throught.. It was a just cause because it saved 30,000 jobs ( while risking 15,0000) . But it also capped him a large financial gain and made his position more ( man I cant spell) what he wanted.. To be the leader of the "greatest airline in america, and thus in the world".. I started to pick this up about DP the same time he started his Townhall meatings 3-4 years ago.. Everyone was saying man this is great he really wants to talk to us.. I'm like what? He just told you LIES... Can you read... are yor a stockholder? Read the reports he is lying to you.. On top of that he is telling you that you might loose your job and take a paycut.. sweet :blink:
But

 

[UWCactus]

Ok lets kick some LCC ass like who? Jetblu, SWA... LOL we cant even take on Frountire(SP?) or Airtran...

Let me say this once again... AWA was fine with 6 quartarly profits until 1 year before this deal came around. DP could not be a big wig at AA or NWA and he hated that.. He wanted to be powerful and made AWA more likely to fail unless this deal went throught.. It was a just cause because it saved 30,000 jobs ( while risking 15,0000) . But it also capped him a large financial gain and made his position more ( man I cant spell) what he wanted.. To be the leader of the "greatest airline in america, and thus in the world".. I started to pick this up about DP the same time he started his Townhall meatings 3-4 years ago.. Everyone was saying man this is great he really wants to talk to us.. I'm like what? He just told you LIES... Can you read... are yor a stockholder? Read the reports he is lying to you.. On top of that he is telling you that you might loose your job and take a paycut.. sweet :blink:
But

Do you really think the America West was going to stay it's size and become a powerhouse on profitablity? Not likely. America West has never been able to make it truly profitable on a consistent basis since they day the company began. I was there through all of it. A merger was going to happen sooner or later, if Parker would have waited until the situation was critical and competition beat us to it, he would have been highly criticized as well. A merger was going to happen...this is what you have, now work with it to make it better.

 

[ClueByFour]

I guarantee you all that MDA pilots want is a mainline job again, preferably, not lower than a 2-year HP pilot.

The MDA guy could have been the 2-year HP pilot by applying at HP. Benefit goes to the two year HP pilot. He chose the airline not at death's door. Certainly had better career expectations.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Benefit goes to the two year HP pilot.

This kind of talk really gets my Hanes in a bunch. Pilots should neither be rewarded nor punished during a merger for getting lucky in their career choices. Yes, I wrote "luck" because an airline's fortune can turn around so fast the smart look stupid and the dumb look like geniuses. The expression "career expectations" is nothing more than a self-serving opinion. Only a non-involved third party can make an objective decision regarding career expectations.

Seniority is important and I know people are just scared for their jobs and QOL. I know I'm not the only one around here who's been through a nasty integration. My reaction is that I never want to see what was done to me done to somebody else. A pilot's worth should not be determined by the financial health of his employer. That being said, as per ALPA merger policy, neither side should enjoy a windfall at the others' expense. Unfortunately these two points can work against each other. I still hope our committees can come to an agreement but if not I don't fear arbitration.

AWA FO (junior)
ex-TWA

 

[EyeInTheSky]

exB717Flyer, your opinion speaks volumes being ex-TWA and getting the stapler treament from AA. More people ought to heed your advice. I can't do anything about this merger integration; this thing is out of our hands and into arbitration. Let the chips fall where they may.

 

[delldude]

h34r: The US folks should have "GRATITUDE NOT ATTITUDE"....after all, if the truth be told they where very close to becoming the TWA of 2005..........they had not a pot to pee in... nor a window to throw it out of.

boy if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black,i don't know.
marriage of two loser airlines gives birth to a 500 pound canary whose owners have already admitted the POR ain't working...

 

[smfav8r]

The MDA guy could have been the 2-year HP pilot by applying at HP. Benefit goes to the two year HP pilot. He chose the airline not at death's door. Certainly had better career expectations.

Clue,

No offense, but are you nuts? Seniority and seat dictate pay and benefits. If pilot a were to jump from airline to airline, he/she would never make any money, have any holidays off or any good bennes. Seniority dictates everything. Skill, experience, judgement and additude mean nothing!

If CAL pilot hired in 88 jumped to say to USAir in 89 which was doing great at the time, he would be out of a job instead of a Captain on the 767 with good money, bennes and sched.

If we as pilots got compensated for our experience (like management positions) seniority wouldn't be much of an issue.

So if my carreer spanned the past 4 decades I could go from Pan Am, Eastern or TWA in the 70's (best too work for then, but now out of business) Piedmont or USAir in the 80's (best too work for then, but now as you put it on death's door) United in the 90's (hey look at them now!)

Wonder what Southwest will be looking like in 10 years??

I guess you just don't have a clue!

 

[RowUnderDCA]

We've been around this before. Apparently, the job description for an airline pilot includes clarvoyance.

 

[Barbell]

We've been around this before. Apparently, the job description for an airline pilot includes clarvoyance.

Boy, you ain't kiddin'. :wacko:

 

[mdarules]

h34r: The US folks should have "GRATITUDE NOT ATTITUDE"....after all, if the truth be told they where very close to becoming the TWA of 2005..........they had not a pot to pee in... nor a window to throw it out of. I have always said God is slow but he is sure.....after what US has done to all the other airlines it has gobbled up....I wonder if this is their pay-back. As the wife of a AWA pilot and someone who has been in the aviation biz for over 20 years.....the writing is on the board. And if the US folks think DP will spend an extra penny to protect them...they are dreaming...BIG TIME. Date of hire is a dream of US and not AWA corporate culture. Welcome to the REAL WORLD....boys and girls. B)

As it seems per the DP(double penetration) of it all... It seems as if AWA would have been in the same situation - the only difference is we all know AWA wouldn't have made it for one year in BK, For one they compete directly with SWA in PHX and they would have eaten you alive in the first week, no doubt USAir was in trouble, you are blind to the fact that if your husband was hired in 1988 and on furlough now he would want fair seniority integration, afterall we the f/as are strict DOH baby so take that one to the bank - DP said that would never happen to... Do you think he is your daddy and going to protect you? Not even hhuurrrrnnnyyyy, you sure don't know much to be in the industry for 20 years and just shows what kind of idiocy our work groups face, you should be trying to help your fellow co-workers not bash them for their hard work, unfortunately your childish behavior has stepped in the way (just like DP wants it too) he is playing YOU, like a fiddle and you don't even know it - HOW FOOLISH OF YOU!!!