Facts

[High Speed Steel]

MCI AFL-CIO, I am glad you brought up the AMT who does not possess the A&P certificates. I have read both the AMFA constitution wich is the most damaging because it is the foundation to divide the Technicians. I have also read the Northwest agreement up through Article #11 and decided that was far enough! In conclusion, I can see who AMFA truly wants to represent and it is not the unlicensed mechanic. Many of these mechanics are considered expendable under the AMFA umbrella.

Machinist=Expendable
Welder=Expendable
Plater=Expendable
Composits=Expendable
OSM classification=Expendable
Title II=Expendable

Many of the obove Technicians are highly skilled and vital to the operation of Aircraft Maintenance. The impact AMFA would have on these positions would be a major contributor to the same level of outsourcing that is being experienced at Northwest Airlines. Which has placed both Licensed, and Unlicensed Technicians on the street...!

---------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[AMFAMAN]

Well, I guess the new campaign from the twu is to lie to members by using half quotes from AMFA organizers, what a bunch of low-lifes. I see the PR firm cut out 3/4 of Cunninghams quote and dubbed in "not allowed in". Now they are using half of Daves, "not the answer". These antics, I guarantee you, will fail. Just like Earl "the child," changing quotes on this board, you will lose because of your actions. The members are ready for a professional organization, not some child run liars club that we are used to seeing. Keep up the good work, you will lose by a landslide.

 

[Decision 2004]

MCI AFL-CIO, I am glad you brought up the AMT who does not possess the A&P certificates. I have read both the AMFA constitution wich is the most damaging because it is the foundation to divide the Technicians. I have also read the Northwest agreement up through Article #11 and decided that was far enough! In conclusion, I can see who AMFA truly wants to represent and it is not the unlicensed mechanic. Many of these mechanics are considered expendable under the AMFA umbrella.

Machinist=Expendable
Welder=Expendable
Plater=Expendable
Composits=Expendable
OSM classification=Expendable
Title II=Expendable

Many of the obove Technicians are highly skilled and vital to the operation of Aircraft Maintenance. The impact AMFA would have on these positions would be a major contributor to the same level of outsourcing that is being experienced at Northwest Airlines. Which has placed both Licensed, and Unlicensed Technicians on the street...!

---------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

Since TEAM twu has previously placed importance on the words spoken by Mr. Kevin Wildermuth - AMFA Region3 Director at September 12 Info Meeting regarding justice being served.

I trust you will allow the same emphasis and crediblity in these spoken words by the same man?

Kevin Wildermuth on Video - Re: Non-Licensed Mechanics

WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY TO THAT HIGH SPEED?

Why do you continue to tell lies?

 

[Decision 2004]

In addition here is the AMFA Constitution Preamble:

And Here is the NWA Contract - Tuition reimbursement

High Speed Steel

What Constitution and Contract did you say you read?

Show us anywhere in the TWU Constitution or a TWU contract where non-A&P's have the same benefits and assistance available to them?

 

[twuer]

Well, I guess the new campaign from the twu is to lie to members by using half quotes from AMFA organizers, what a bunch of low-lifes. I see the PR firm cut out 3/4 of Cunninghams quote and dubbed in "not allowed in". Now they are using half of Daves, "not the answer". These antics, I guarantee you, will fail. Just like Earl "the child," changing quotes on this board, you will lose because of your actions. The members are ready for a professional organization, not some child run liars club that we are used to seeing. Keep up the good work, you will lose by a landslide.

Give me a freakin' break amfaman (Don??) You amfa wannabees have been playing that game the whole time. Now you have the nerve to accuse someone else of doing the same thing?? How typical is that???

It's also amusing that you would use this term. . ."professional organization" when speaking of amfa and those who represent them on these boards. The same folks who keep getting kicked off (more than once!!!!) and deleted by moderator over and over, the same folks who call twu members nazis and members of the KKK. It just boggles the mind doesn't it????

You are going to lose amfaman, if it even comes down to a vote. I just hope you are not out too much money for organizing and for that fine union hall space you amfa wannabes have rented out. What will you do with all of those shirts????

 

[James T. Kirk]

Name: Joey
Employer: x-nwa
Location: Laid off from NWA living in St Paul
Date: Sunday, March 14, 2004
Time: 07:49 AM


Comments
I'm a former NWA Mech/Tech that was laid off under AMFA and I want everyone to know that AMFA hasn't done jack for me. The only letters I get is to pay them money for laid off members for a chance to get recalled. But people here keep telling me that recall is never going to happen because we have no work left. So why do I have to pay AMFA? Why doesn't AMFA tell me that I'm not ever coming back? Now people in Duluth tell me that Steve MacFarlane and Jim Young are trying to screw all the laid off members out of our right to vote. Why? I wish I had never heard of AMFA. I wish we could go back to 1998 and stay IAM.

 

[Decision 2004]

Name: Joey
Employer: x-nwa
Location: Laid off from NWA living in St Paul
Date: Sunday, March 14, 2004
Time: 07:49 AM


Comments
I'm a former NWA Mech/Tech that was laid off under AMFA and I want everyone to know that AMFA hasn't done jack for me. The only letters I get is to pay them money for laid off members for a chance to get recalled. But people here keep telling me that recall is never going to happen because we have no work left. So why do I have to pay AMFA? Why doesn't AMFA tell me that I'm not ever coming back? Now people in Duluth tell me that Steve MacFarlane and Jim Young are trying to screw all the laid off members out of our right to vote. Why? I wish I had never heard of AMFA. I wish we could go back to 1998 and stay IAM.

I read that on the internet.

It must be true! Can you show some documents, video, or anything to substantiate these claims?

And I have some swamp land in the desert for sale.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Name: Joey
Employer: x-nwa
Location: Laid off from NWA living in St Paul
Date: Sunday, March 14, 2004
Time: 07:49 AM


Comments
I'm a former NWA Mech/Tech that was laid off under AMFA and I want everyone to know that AMFA hasn't done jack for me. The only letters I get is to pay them money for laid off members for a chance to get recalled. But people here keep telling me that recall is never going to happen because we have no work left. So why do I have to pay AMFA? Why doesn't AMFA tell me that I'm not ever coming back? Now people in Duluth tell me that Steve MacFarlane and Jim Young are trying to screw all the laid off members out of our right to vote. Why? I wish I had never heard of AMFA. I wish we could go back to 1998 and stay IAM.

Hey Tiberius, what's the problem? No one going to the amfanuts site so you have to post the lies from there over here? Oh, that will stop AMFA. LOL

Now, how many cards did AMFA file with? HHUUUMMMMMM?????????
Ansewr: Enough to gaurantee an election to remove the twu. You might want to put start organizing the Klingons and Romulans. Because your beloved twu will not be representing AMTs at AA in a couple of months. Remember though, if you tell the Klingons they will get a full revote you better deliver. I would hate to see you pull a Trebble out of your @$$ after lieing to that bunch. Ouch!

 

[Decision 2004]

Now, how many cards did AMFA file with? HHUUUMMMMMM?????????

THIS MANY!

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

mci,

"Bob in reality what could AMFA do for your cost of living that TWU has not tried?"

The answer to your question is negotiate from a position of strength and listen to the membership's needs.


"Fianlly Bob, I do agree somehting has to be done and it is being done, we were making great strides until the RAID by AMFA came along, now, for every step we took forward, we have gone in reverse 3 steps, its goig to take time Bob, and I ahve siad before about you, you are very intelligent, and if you, Dave and the others would use your energy to help all of us and the TWU as you do for AMFA, we would have found the problem and corrected it by now.
I only wish I had half of your talent and contacts asyou do, Bob I appreciate your reply, with honesty its always an honor Bob to view your posts "

NOTHING is being done by the twu to protect our profession mci. Don't you see that? What was the , "Change from within!", slogan all about? Bob and Chuck tried that. Guess what? sonny did not like it.

As for taking steps backwards we have not. What has happened is the twu got in their bus and DROVE miles backwards. They passed the exit for SNAP BACK CLAUSES once they saw the exit for COMPANY REIMBURSED UNION PRESIDENT SALARIES up ahead.

If Bob is so talented and intelligent and has so many contacts why do you refute what he posts about the twu's ineptness?

If Bob is so talented and intelligent and has so many contacts why do you refute what he posts about the twu's ineptness



Ken, Refute? Do you not agree that Bob is talented?Intelligent? Ken, what would you know of AMFA? your only an associate member, you have not worked inside the walls of AMFA dictator system, how can you preach what you preach without knowing the facts? All your reporting is hearsay Ken, Sure AMFA will say anyhting that sounds good, but guess what Ken if it sounds to good to be true.........it probably isnt true. Ken, seriously, Do you really beleive AMFA can do for you better than TWU has? Dont give me that demopcracy thing, You say AMFA is democratic, I say TWU is, its a draw. Convince me where AMFA is much better than TWU? and Ken dont start namecalling, are calling us bootlickers
Ken, I do feel Bob is very intelligent and talented and I DO BELEIVE HE HAS CONTACTS, I never questioned his integrity, but he like you, has never walked in AMFA shoes, oh sure now while everyone is disgruntled, its easy to place blame on TWU, but, how long if we should happen to belong to AMFa, will it be before Bob or you or any others find fault with AMFA just the way you find fault with TWU?
Ken you claim that TWU is inept, You know Ken, If I came from your local, I would take displeasure hearing you say that, to me it sounds as if your blaming your fellow workers, your democracy, Ken honestly, with AMFA, you dont feel you will see or hear any of the so called INEPTNESS you speak of at TWU?

 

[local 12 proud]

mci afl-cio have you just once bothered to read AMFA'S constitution? you dont need to be apart of an organization to identify with its ideaology. unlike the communist twu the AMFA stands for democracy where every member has a voice. when is the last time you set in on contract negotiations between the company and union? never unless your one of those who sell the membership for own personal gain, this AMFA revolution is not going to go away. it is now "8" airlines strong and the mechanics at A.A. will make "9". how many card drives do you see from the all mighty afl-cio union's i.b.t., t.w.u., i.a.m., at the air carriers? none because thier track record speaks volumes. make the intelligent choice for once in your life.......GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AMFA

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

MCI AFL-CIO,

I called you a LOSER in need of Psychological help,because you are! I call'em like I see'em. I have been fighting your UNPROFESSIONAL type for almost 20 years. Ever since I've been in this God foresaken industry ,I've seen your type vote yes to concessions,lousy contracts and never once fight for anything! Look what your IAM did to TWA! Wasn't it the IAM that wanted ICAHN to take over TWA? Look what ICAHN did for you! Now you're on the side of the EVIL TWU! The union that has been selling the MECHANICS and RELATED down the river for 20+years! MCI AFL-CIO, you and your buddies(CIO,TWUER,etc.) are a CANCER
on the MECHANICS and RELATED which is about to be removed!

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob I didnt claim I dont care about others, I do care and I do agree we all face problems, yes others have it worse than I, I agree, It is a problem to be in New York with higher cost of living, but as Dave Stewart said last saturday in Kansas City, that "AMFA IS NOT THE ANSWER"

I think you are twisting Daves words.

Bob in reality what could AMFA do for your cost of living that TWU has not tried?

First tell me what the TWU has tried.

While AMFA dont want the LOWER classification, Fleet, Stores etc riding on their coat tails, Bob what will your views be about the AMT who does not possess an A&P?


LOWER classification? Dont you mean lower paid? I dont consider Fleet service to be "Lower" than me, I just dont think that they should have any say in determining what a mechanic is worth. I would have no problem having Stores with us. We work very closely with stores and if they were "riding on our coat tails" -your words, it would not hamper our efforts. AMTs without liscences would be the same as they are now with the same limitations. However our contract should provide tuition reimbursement to broaden these members opportunities.

Do you realize that the AMT out numbers the A&P? How many years before AMFA treats the AMT as they do stores or Ramp?

What are you talking about? AMT is the new title for A&P.

Self interests Bob meaning they are trying to rid themselves of Stores, Fleet and Ramp. Witht eh TWU Bob, all classes are represented with separate title groups, no coat tail riding

AMFA offers us the opportunity to unite all the mechanics across the industry into one union. This is a proven concept.

This contrast with the current structure of unionism in this industry where workers belong to unions according to their employer. This is a flawed system as evidenced by the fact that despite rapid growth, profits and increased productivity that airline workers wages have been in decline for over twenty years. With the cooperation of the unions, employers have been able to use labor costs as the main avenue towards a competative edge. The motivation for unions to sell out their members is more dues. By far the TWU has been the leader. The TWUs industry leading concessions statered back in 1983. The concessions that the TWU handed over in 1983 were so industry leading that other airlines were only able to gain those concessions through bankruptcy, twenty years later.

I have no problem with Fleet. In fact I would rather take my chances with a Fleet service worker here in NY than a mechanic like you in MCI. However we must find a way to do things better. Better for the members. It is my belief that the current structure is utterly flawed and ineffective. It is my hope that we can unite our craft with AMFA, then the other workers can unite under the AGW and then the two groups can cooperate with each other to their mutual advantage.

Bob I disagree, I beleive that fleet, stores and ramp are skilled as I or you are. I know for a fact that many in those classes do have college degrees, and could be doing other jobs but they are happy where they are and it is not my place to judge them or to judge you, How many mechanics, had the availability starting thru the airlines, startig as Fleet, Stores, or ramp, and moved up to the mechanic class?

Sure, they are skilled and they should all be in one union like the Longshoremen. However I dont know that the skills that they have go in conjuction with a college degree. Surely a degree in something that has no relevance to the job cant be considered a requirement that should be considered when determining compensation. If a fleet service worker walks across the ramp he should still be in the same union. As A&P mechanics we have special needs and priorities. We need to focus on the liscence.

Under AMFA this will no longer be accepted?

Why wouldnt it? Right now, under the TWU when someone from stores or flett upgrades to mechanic he takes his company, but no occupational. This would not have to change.

Value Bob? No, Im nt any more valuable than the person doing Stores or fleet, are you?

Quit playing semantics. Are you saying that a Stores or Fleet guy should be paid exactly the same as a mechanic? I feel that the skills I offer command a higher salary. Interpret that as you may.

Bob, AMFA is not affiliated with the AFL-CIO, IAM is.

So in order to be considered a "Union", the organization must be in the AFL-CIO? Thats a pretty narrow perspective isnt it? So when the Teamsters and the Carpenters withdrew from the AFL-CIO they ceast being unions? You lost big time on that point my friend.

Bob, can you honestly say that having involvement with politics is bad? Can you say that because of that involvement, you or anyone you know has not gained any benefit from political involvement?


No. I 've said it many times before that unions must be involved in politics as long as their employers are. AMFA has and will increasingly be involved in politics. However Labor can not limit their strategy for gains to the political arena.

Why Bob, if AMFA does not want be involved, why did KEvin Wildermuth make known at the Kansas City Meeting, he had been contacted by the GAO office to ask his advice on guidelines?


That supports my earlier statements now doesnt it?

Where does the dues money go Bob if not to politics?

You are obviously confusing issues. By the way there arex strict guidelines as to what dues money can be used for, especially where politcis are concerned.

Fianlly Bob, I do agree somehting has to be done and it is being done, we were making great strides until the RAID by AMFA came along, now, for every step we took forward, we have gone in reverse 3 steps, its goig to take time Bob, and I ahve siad before about you, you are very intelligent, and if you, Dave and the others would use your energy to help all of us and the TWU as you do for AMFA, we would have found the problem and corrected it by now.


Do you mean like Randy McDonalds attempt to take away the line premium to give the base workers another holiday off?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

mci,

"Bob in reality what could AMFA do for your cost of living that TWU has not tried?"

The answer to your question is negotiate from a position of strength and listen to the membership's needs.


"Fianlly Bob, I do agree somehting has to be done and it is being done, we were making great strides until the RAID by AMFA came along, now, for every step we took forward, we have gone in reverse 3 steps, its goig to take time Bob, and I ahve siad before about you, you are very intelligent, and if you, Dave and the others would use your energy to help all of us and the TWU as you do for AMFA, we would have found the problem and corrected it by now.
I only wish I had half of your talent and contacts asyou do, Bob I appreciate your reply, with honesty its always an honor Bob to view your posts "

NOTHING is being done by the twu to protect our profession mci. Don't you see that? What was the , "Change from within!", slogan all about? Bob and Chuck tried that. Guess what? sonny did not like it.

As for taking steps backwards we have not. What has happened is the twu got in their bus and DROVE miles backwards. They passed the exit for SNAP BACK CLAUSES once they saw the exit for COMPANY REIMBURSED UNION PRESIDENT SALARIES up ahead.

If Bob is so talented and intelligent and has so many contacts why do you refute what he posts about the twu's ineptness?

If Bob is so talented and intelligent and has so many contacts why do you refute what he posts about the twu's ineptness



Ken, Refute? Do you not agree that Bob is talented?Intelligent? Ken, what would you know of AMFA? your only an associate member, you have not worked inside the walls of AMFA dictator system, how can you preach what you preach without knowing the facts? All your reporting is hearsay Ken, Sure AMFA will say anyhting that sounds good, but guess what Ken if it sounds to good to be true.........it probably isnt true. Dont give me that demopcracy thing, You say AMFA is democratic, I say TWU is, its a draw. Convince me where AMFA is much better than TWU? and Ken dont start namecalling, are calling us bootlickers
Ken, I do feel Bob is very intelligent and talented and I DO BELEIVE HE HAS CONTACTS, I never questioned his integrity, but he like you, has never walked in AMFA shoes, oh sure now while everyone is disgruntled, its easy to place blame on TWU, but, how long if we should happen to belong to AMFa, will it be before Bob or you or any others find fault with AMFA just the way you find fault with TWU?
Ken you claim that TWU is inept, You know Ken, If I came from your local, I would take displeasure hearing you say that, to me it sounds as if your blaming your fellow workers, your democracy, Ken honestly, with AMFA, you dont feel you will see or hear any of the so called INEPTNESS you speak of at TWU?

afl,

All your reporting is hearsay Ken, Sure AMFA will say anyhting that sounds good, but guess what Ken if it sounds to good to be true.........it probably isnt true.

Hearsay? I have gone to AMFA Informational meetings, talked with AMFA represented AMTs, saw first hand how AMFA picketed the White House to defend our profession. I have also read AMFA's Constitution and the twu's. I am an Associate AMFA member and have been given information into AMFA's actions to defend our profession and even given a ballot to vote on elected officers in AMFA. I do not consider this hearsay.

Convince me where AMFA is much better than TWU? and Ken dont start namecalling, are calling us bootlickers


If you have not been convinced yet that AMFA is better than we remain at a draw. Perhaps you should have attended the AMFA/twu debate in Tulsa at the Brady? Maybe you should have picketed the White House in defence of our profession and seen first hand how WE controll the union and not the other way around. I won't call you a bootlicker. I would like to call you by your first name though. May I call you Steve?


Ken, seriously, Do you really beleive AMFA can do for you better than TWU has?

Very simply, yes I do.


(I am not taking this out of context.) oh sure now while everyone is disgruntled, its easy to place blame on TWU, but, how long if we should happen to belong to AMFa, will it be before Bob or you or any others find fault with AMFA just the way you find fault with TWU?


afl, I will be the first one to speak up if AMFA does or is doing something against the memberships needs/wishes/profession. You can believe that Bob will also. The difference is that AMFA is democratic. (Sorry for using that word again.) AMFA is structured to change from within. And if for some unforseen reason AMFA turns into a union like the twu and is unable to change for the better than I will look else where for democratic representation. But the very nature of AMFA is such that this possibility is not likely to ever happen.



Ken honestly, with AMFA, you dont feel you will see or hear any of the so called INEPTNESS you speak of at TWU?

Will I see "ineptness" in AMFA like I do in the twu? To date I have not seen any. Do I expect to see any? afl, human nature is a funny thing. Take booby gless as an example. When he was the President in NY for his Local he was a good President. Then he was selected, I mean appointed into the twu international. He then drank from the "Black Chalice Of Greed" and changed. That is where the "ineptness" began. In the twu I can not remove bobby gless. Hell, I never even voted for him in the first palce. In AMFA if this scenario ever presented itself I would vote to remove him from office.
When I speak of "ineptness" afl I point to the twu internatioanl level. My Local Chairman is VERY pro-AMT. He always has been. But he has also been very pro twu. But even he has seen for himself how the twu international "ineptness" has eroded our profession. He has signed an AMFA card and will vote AMFA. He will also run for Chairman and win AND continue to defend our profession.
afl, I can only assume and hope you wish the best for our profession. As I do. The facts are that the twu has not been able to provide the service we pay them for. There will be an election between AMFA and the twu. AMFA will win. At that time we will be able to ALL move forward TOGETHER. You seem intelligent too. Perhaps at the next AMFA meeting in Tulsa we can actually meet and speak professionaly. Without you laughing at me like you did outside the base when I was last out there and introduced myself.

 

[Johnny Lunchbox]

Ken, we, you and I, will never "be able to ALL move forward TOGETHER." I do not now or anytime in the future want anything to do with you or other organizers of this AMFA. I will never be AMFA, you may find a way to force me to hand pay a hobbit, but trust be bud, I will never be AMFA. And trust me one more time in realizing that in fact sir, I am a professional in every thing I do, especially in forming my opinion of your union busting association.

I will hold you and the other organizers personally responsible for AMFA. Get ready to step up to the bat, you want to be big time, you got it.