Extremely Outrageous Us Fares

[sfb]

You would seriously fly ISP-PHL? I on occasion fly DCA-PHL, but that's only if part of a multi-leg trip and I want my car at the airport. The O&D fare is so high to keep higher yielding seats open for those making connections. This route is not flown to serve the ISP to PHL market. It's flown to serve the ISP to "beyond PHL" market, especially when "beyond PHL" includes international destinations.

Well, if they're trying to heep "higher-yielding seats" open they're doing a lousy job of it. I can buy a round-trip from ISP to FLL leaving tomorrow morning and returning Wednesday morning for $296. I think it's unlikely that they're making more money on that than if they were to sell ISP-PHL for, say, $100 max each way and sell PHL-FLL for $200 max each way.

 

[skyflyr69]

[

skyflyr69ou :
DL does not operate N/S between Isp and Phl. at least according to its web site. What routing did you get quote from?


it's on ORBITZ 1002.00 dollars. guess they need more money to pay those pilot salaries.

 

[mweiss]

It's because Orbitz is selling two round trip tickets and adding their prices together. DL's not really selling in that market at all.

 

[JS]

Well, if they're trying to heep "higher-yielding seats" open they're doing a lousy job of it.  I can buy a round-trip from ISP to FLL leaving tomorrow morning and returning Wednesday morning for $296.  I think it's unlikely that they're making more money on that than if they were to sell ISP-PHL for, say, $100 max each way and sell PHL-FLL for $200 max each way.

[post="237821"][/post]​

No, not quite. If all the booking classes below Y sell out, you will not be able to fly from ISP to FLL for $296 round trip. The only seats left will be the $400 one way flights to PHL and the $600 or so one way flights to FLL via PHL.

Believe me, US isn't the only one. One time I needed to go to the ATL airport and back on the same day with no advance notice (I live down the street from GSP). Delta wanted $400 roundtrip! It's a 2.5 to 3 hour drive, so I had no problem driving instead, something that most people would do anyway without even bothering to check the air fare.

I just checked the same-day walkup roundtrip fare, and now it's $600! So much for the fare cuts.

 

[marco90821]

That's funny...I found a r/t fc fare for $499.00. Not sure where you get your misinformation?!

 

[whlinder]

IMHO US prices their nonstop flights too high and their connecting flights too low. What % of their traffic is O&D vs. connecting?

A $300 fare ISP-PHL is far more profitable than a $400 fare ISP-Florida. Bump up the fares on connections (especially through PHL) and cut the fares on nonstop flights. I'd even suggest that for connecting itineraries that can be routed through PHL or PIT/CLT, only file fares in the cheaper buckets that can be connected in PIT/CLT. Don't offer a PHL connection unless it is a pretty high fare. Helps the PHL operation and also frees up more seats to sell at reasonably priced O&D tickets to PHL. I know fares are based on demand and not costs, but you are much better off if 75% of the passengers on the plane are O&D are cheap/reasonable fares instead of 75% of the passengers all connecting on cheap fares.

 

[JS]

That's funny...I found a r/t fc fare for $499.00. Not sure where you get your misinformation?!

[post="237959"][/post]​

For GSP-ATL? Try 1/12 morning, returning 1/12 evening. $593.91 for coach, and nothing available in First Class.

 

[JS]

IMHO US prices their nonstop flights too high and their connecting flights too low. What % of their traffic is O&D vs. connecting?

A $300 fare ISP-PHL is far more profitable than a $400 fare ISP-Florida. Bump up the fares on connections (especially through PHL) and cut the fares on nonstop flights. I'd even suggest that for connecting itineraries that can be routed through PHL or PIT/CLT, only file fares in the cheaper buckets that can be connected in PIT/CLT. Don't offer a PHL connection unless it is a pretty high fare. Helps the PHL operation and also frees up more seats to sell at reasonably priced O&D tickets to PHL. I know fares are based on demand and not costs, but you are much better off if 75% of the passengers on the plane are O&D are cheap/reasonable fares instead of 75% of the passengers all connecting on cheap fares.

[post="237972"][/post]​

That's not such a great idea since there are no flights from ISP to PIT or CLT.

Besides, the PHL operation is messed up not because the arriving flights are too full or have too many cheapies; it's messed up because there are too many flights and not enough employees.

 

[whlinder]

Well not so much for ISP but say for BDL or for BOS. Route connecting traffic from those cities through PIT/CLT.

It also can't hurt the PHL operation to have fewer connecting passengers to deal with.

 

[sfb]

No, not quite. If all the booking classes below Y sell out, you will not be able to fly from ISP to FLL for $296 round trip. The only seats left will be the $400 one way flights to PHL and the $600 or so one way flights to FLL via PHL.

Well, I ought to have been more clear. I checked the fare on the exact same ISP-PHL-ISP flights that I would have used on the ISP-FLL itinerary, and the round-trip fare ISP-PHL was $800 plus. That's what's so insane about the whole thing. It's cheaper to buy ISP-FLL round-trip and throw away the last three segments than it is to fly ISP-PHL one-way.

I have to agree with whlinder here -- it can't hurt to rethink how US prices its flying via PHL. If people want to pay a significant premium to fly through PHL (or are connecting to transatlantic flights), make seats available. But for deeply discounted fares, don't burden yourself with those passengers unless you get the airport staffing to appropriate levels. And even then, it's still going to be more profitable to get PHL O&D passengers at somewhat lower fares than it will be to process connecting passengers at deeply discounted fares.

And from a station like ISP -- perhaps it would make sense to let WN have the passengers looking for cheap flights to Florida, while pricing the connections via PHL more moderately, even to destinations that WN doesn't serve. $300 round-trip to PIT, as an example, would still give an excellent yield of 25-30 cents/mile.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

I think the answer is supposed to by ROLL PHL. If you schedule for efficiently serving the O and D at PHL, the extra burden of using PHL as a connecting hub solves itself. There's no getting around the need to appropriately staff any airport operation, but if U is actually going to roll PHL then connecting opportunities through PHL will naturally become less attractive to flyers and the aircraft operational timing has already been fixed, theoretically. Then use smart yield management to price seats so that you induce higher fares for seat mile flown.

Isn't this the opposite of what U has done for decades? U should run the marketing around PHL operations, not the other way around. They should do the same at LGA, BOS and DCA and maybe FLL.

 

[JS]

Well, I ought to have been more clear.  I checked the fare on the exact same ISP-PHL-ISP flights that I would have used on the ISP-FLL itinerary, and the round-trip fare ISP-PHL was $800 plus.  That's what's so insane about the whole thing.  It's cheaper to buy ISP-FLL round-trip and throw away the last three segments than it is to fly ISP-PHL one-way.

I have to agree with whlinder here -- it can't hurt to rethink how US prices its flying via PHL.  If people want to pay a significant premium to fly through PHL (or are connecting to transatlantic flights), make seats available.  But for deeply discounted fares, don't burden yourself with those passengers unless you get the airport staffing to appropriate levels.  And even then, it's still going to be more profitable to get PHL O&D passengers at somewhat lower fares than it will be to process connecting passengers at deeply discounted fares.

And from a station like ISP -- perhaps it would make sense to let WN have the passengers looking for cheap flights to Florida, while pricing the connections via PHL more moderately, even to destinations that WN doesn't serve.  $300 round-trip to PIT, as an example, would still give an excellent yield of 25-30 cents/mile.

[post="238015"][/post]​

The $800 fare to go just to PHL and back is set assuming that people would actually pay it (could be a wrong assumption, though). My point is that when ISP-FLL via PHL sells out of $296 seats, you can still buy the $800 ticket to PHL.

There is no need to prohibit PHL connections on cheap fares. Y and B seats will always be available unless people actually buy all the Y and B seats, something that US could really use right now. It's extremely unlikely that there will be more people who want to buy a B fare than there are B seats because of sales of discount tickets. Shooing people away from PHL connections because of the booking class will fill up the cheap buckets to PIT and CLT very quickly, and once that happens, most people will take another airline.

Even worse, letting Southwest have all your cheap passengers means letting Southwest have most of your passengers. Most people don't pay full fare. Letting Southwest have the passengers headed to Florida is what got US into this mess -- US let WN have California, then BWI, and now PHL and PIT. Southwest will take more and more passengers until there are no US passengers left.

 

[sfb]

The $800 fare to go just to PHL and back is set assuming that people would actually pay it (could be a wrong assumption, though). My point is that when ISP-FLL via PHL sells out of $296 seats, you can still buy the $800 ticket to PHL.

There is no need to prohibit PHL connections on cheap fares. Y and B seats will always be available unless people actually buy all the Y and B seats, something that US could really use right now. It's extremely unlikely that there will be more people who want to buy a B fare than there are B seats because of sales of discount tickets. Shooing people away from PHL connections because of the booking class will fill up the cheap buckets to PIT and CLT very quickly, and once that happens, most people will take another airline.

Even worse, letting Southwest have all your cheap passengers means letting Southwest have most of your passengers. Most people don't pay full fare. Letting Southwest have the passengers headed to Florida is what got US into this mess -- US let WN have California, then BWI, and now PHL and PIT. Southwest will take more and more passengers until there are no US passengers left.

I can't imagine that there are too many people willing to pay $400 each way between ISP and PHL. And if you're willing to sell cheap seats to FLL on the same flights, why not sell seats to PHL for slightly less?

I'd say that you should restrict or eliminate PHL connections on the cheapest fares. Let's say that you severely restrict L, S, and T availability unless it's for travel to/from PHL. Let the competition fill their lowest fare buckets and then compete for the passengers in the next ones up. Southwest doesn't fly all its passengers on its lowest fares, either -- roughly 35% of their traffic pays the full Y fare.

The reason Southwest has been taking US Airways' passengers is not that US hasn't been matching fares; rather WN has been going into US Airways markets because of the latter's ridiculous pricing. Why wouldn't they go into a market like PVD-PHL where the average fare was $350 each way a year ago?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Here's something on DAL's new fare structure from Standard & Poor's Rating Service. It 's a Q & A with Phillip Baggaley, so even USA320Pilot should like it.....

Inside Delta's Low-Fare Strategy

Jim

 

[tadjr]

Not only are the fares themselves in some markets outrageous, the fact that some markets have so many different fares is ludicrous. (I guess we know of one department that hasnt been cut enough. )
Anyway, was checking fares TPA-ILM the other day and we have over 30 fares filed in that market. Granted some were sale fares and had expiration dates, but even halfed, do we really need 15 or even 10 fares in a market like this?