ENVOY Random Drug and Alcohol testing for Customer Services workgroups.

[CremaDiLimone]

the rules are totally subjective...to me, much like the attendance policy...where some fscs get a pass and others are hit with paperwork - for the same 'violations'.

an incident happened at my station a few years ago. a 737 came in on a gate with the PCA hose unrolled on the ground and way past the safety line. the plane was brought in, the pilot kept going and an engine took in the PCA hose.

ok, the c/c got tested. why? because he was spotted on camera exiting and returning to his ready room to go to the bathroom. the hose was past the line, but he didn't notice. he just wanted and needed to go to the bathroom. the c/c was not outside when the plane was brought in.

regardless, he was tested. no cameras, he never would have gotten tested. it's a new world with the cameras.

 

[WeAAsles]

the rules are totally subjective...to me, much like the attendance policy...where some fscs get a pass and others are hit with paperwork - for the same 'violations'.

an incident happened at my station a few years ago. a 737 came in on a gate with the PCA hose unrolled on the ground and way past the safety line. the plane was brought in, the pilot kept going and an engine took in the PCA hose.

ok, the c/c got tested. why? because he was spotted on camera exiting and returning to his ready room to go to the bathroom. the hose was past the line, but he didn't notice. he just wanted and needed to go to the bathroom. the c/c was not outside when the plane was brought in.

regardless, he was tested. no cameras, he never would have gotten tested. it's a new world with the cameras.

Perhaps the ship does need to be tightened up some? We work with lots of people who would be considered “impaired” every single day. It’s not just Drugs and Alcohol but also lack of sleep from people working far too many hours than their minds and bodies can handle and Medical issues like Diabetes, Sleep Apnea and being Obese also causes extreme drowsiness.

For all the controversies surrounding the idea of being tested such as errors in the results I’d have zero problem with the program coming down to the Ramp.

Pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics are subject to randoms already, why not us too?

 

[Jester]

Perhaps the ship does need to be tightened up some? We work with lots of people who would be considered “impaired” every single day. It’s not just Drugs and Alcohol but also lack of sleep from people working far too many hours than their minds and bodies can handle and Medical issues like Diabetes, Sleep Apnea and being Obese also causes extreme drowsiness.

For all the controversies surrounding the idea of being tested such as errors in the results I’d have zero problem with the program coming down to the Ramp.

Pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics are subject to randoms already, why not us too?

Let's just say there are some break rooms in PHX, probably much like MIA, where some groups of people are more inclined to enjoy a certain smokable herb. I have little doubt a sizable minority of ramp agents could not pass a random drug test. However, let's be clear that standards for intoxication or impairment have not be agreed upon by the medical community, so only zero tolerance has been the policy. For example, someone who smoked a joint 2 weeks ago would come back dirty, but highly unlikely to be under the influence while at work today. Muddle the legal waters with several states legalizing marijuana and the criminal argument becomes cast in doubt, as well.

I agree with you, as well, that I have seen too many walking zombies with too many hours between AA or other employment. As much as I hate to support Management, because I do not know of an adequate measurement for fatigue, besides sleeping-- I am beginning to understand the objections to on-duty napping. Usually the Management argument has been theft-of-time, while I am seeing it as a safety issue, especially while operating heavy equipment. If one needs to sleep while at work, then one probably has been working too many hours.

 

[gulfcoast1]

The pilots and FA's can sleep on long international flights in the designated crew rest areas. I am not taking a position on whether clerks should or should not. But pilots and FA's do. I think it has to be 8 or 9 hour flights or more.

 

[Jester]

The pilots and FA's can sleep on long international flights in the designated crew rest areas. I am not taking a position on whether clerks should or should not. But pilots and FA's do. I think it has to be 8 or 9 hour flights or more.

I assume not while being the PIC? Not on duty, and people should be able to rest in an appropriate location.

 

[gulfcoast1]

I assume not while being the PIC? Not on duty, and people should be able to rest in an appropriate location.

They nap while on duty and while being paid, but no, not while flying the plane. I doubt any of our clerks nap while actively stacking a bag either. My point is they are permitted to nap on duty during an 8 or 9 hour shift. The 777's have bunks with stairs for pilots. The 767's do not have a bunk and the pilots have a designated seat in business class. You will see on the European flights and other longhauls there are 30 seats in J but only 29 for sale. They sleep in plain view of passengers. The pilot usually makes a PA explaining that passengers might see a pilot resting in business class but there are two pilots in the cockpit while the third rests.

Again, not taking a position but they are allowed to sleep during a 9 hour shift and clerks are not supposed to.

 

[jimntx]

It's not a question of "allowed." Pilots, by Federal Air Regulations, must have a certain amount of rest if on duty longer that a specified time. This threshold is not reached on every international flight; so, the pilots do not get a rest period on those flights. Just because there are facilities on the airplane for pilot rest does not mean the facilities are used on every flight.

The flight attendants also have a rest facility in the ceiling of the airplane, but they only get to use it on flights of a certain length or longer. There is no mandatory (per FAR) rest for flight attendants. It is a contractual thing for them. As far as the FAA is concerned, if a flight attendant is upright with eyes open, they are legal to fly and work.

 

[1986Mekanic]

Perhaps the ship does need to be tightened up some? We work with lots of people who would be considered “impaired” every single day. It’s not just Drugs and Alcohol but also lack of sleep from people working far too many hours than their minds and bodies can handle and Medical issues like Diabetes, Sleep Apnea and being Obese also causes extreme drowsiness.

For all the controversies surrounding the idea of being tested such as errors in the results I’d have zero problem with the program coming down to the Ramp.

Pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics are subject to randoms already, why not us too?

Could it be that Ramp personnel are not considered "safety sensitive " by the DOT?

 

[WeAAsles]

Could it be that Ramp personnel are not considered "safety sensitive " by the DOT?

We’re not and the Airlines have fought against us being added from what I’ve been told. They already have a very difficult time hiring and keeping workers in the subcontracting companies because of the horribly low pay.

I’m actually surprised Envoy is even implementing this initiative since they’re also another outfit that pays incredibly crappy wages.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Perhaps the ship does need to be tightened up some? We work with lots of people who would be considered “impaired” every single day. It’s not just Drugs and Alcohol but also lack of sleep from people working far too many hours than their minds and bodies can handle and Medical issues like Diabetes, Sleep Apnea and being Obese also causes extreme drowsiness.

For all the controversies surrounding the idea of being tested such as errors in the results I’d have zero problem with the program coming down to the Ramp.

Pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics are subject to randoms already, why not us too?

my issue is with all the hypocrisy surrounding airline/airport jobs & workers.

i have no problem with random drug testing. it gives the 'clean' workers more value...besides the safer work environment and the increased reliability & dependability of the 'clean and sober' employee.

ok, what about all the dubious contract companies and workers that i'm exposed to everyday. dope smokers and peddlers, gang-bangers and thieves.

so, i have to keep my nose clean and tow the line, while the contract worker 30 feet from me, is buzzed and eyeballing a charging cellphone or comes into an aa ready room with co-workers' bags and property unattended? the same buzzed guy driving a circa 1986 hough like a wildman ready to steamroll a worker doing an FOD check?

the example i cited, tells me that even if that c/c was not directly involved in the incident, just by going to the bathroom, he was considered involved...was tested and failed his test.

 

[ALUS78]

We’re not and the Airlines have fought against us being added from what I’ve been told. They already have a very difficult time hiring and keeping workers in the subcontracting companies because of the horribly low pay.

I’m actually surprised Envoy is even implementing this initiative since they’re also another outfit that pays incredibly crappy wages.

Yes it will increase the turnover.A 18 year old kid could make the same working in a mall and still get high

 

[WeAAsles]

my issue is with all the hypocrisy surrounding airline/airport jobs & workers.

i have no problem with random drug testing. it gives the 'clean' workers more value...besides the safer work environment and the increased reliability & dependability of the 'clean and sober' employee.

ok, what about all the dubious contract companies and workers that i'm exposed to everyday. dope smokers and peddlers, gang-bangers and thieves.

so, i have to keep my nose clean and tow the line, while the contract worker 30 feet from me, is buzzed and eyeballing a charging cellphone or comes into an aa ready room with co-workers' bags and property unattended? the same buzzed guy driving a circa 1986 hough like a wildman ready to steamroll a worker doing an FOD check?

the example i cited, tells me that even if that c/c was not directly involved in the incident, just by going to the bathroom, he was considered involved...was tested and failed his test.

I wish we could get the DOT to make randoms a requirement for the job. If that were to occur probably 3/4 of these subcontracting outfits would be out of business having to raise wages to make the job valuable.

And I’m sorry about that CC. I hope they gave him the opportunity to get clean? People though need to get off the junk and realize how valuable their jobs are though. We don’t work for any of those “Fight for 15” outfits.

I shared that letter all over FB as a warning. Unfortunately I don’t think the program will come to the Mainline myself but maybe this letter will at least scare a few into thinking about the seriousness of their actions?

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes it will increase the turnover.A 18 year old kid could make the same working in a mall and still get high

Exactly. I wouldn’t take that dead end go nowhere job with even the added insult of them shoving a cue tip in my mouth.

 

[Jester]

I wish we could get the DOT to make randoms a requirement for the job. If that were to occur probably 3/4 of these subcontracting outfits would be out of business having to raise wages to make the job valuable.

And I’m sorry about that CC. I hope they gave him the opportunity to get clean? People though need to get off the junk and realize how valuable their jobs are though. We don’t work for any of those “Fight for 15” outfits.

Let me go one further in my pet peeve, as I put on my Mr. A-hole/Mr. Insensitive hat-- I don't give a damn if one has a substance abuse "problem" as their excuse for being under the influence as work. I don't care if it is booze, weed, meth, crack, etc. because if I am laid-up in a hospital (or worse) and unable to work because someone's "problem" comes into contact with me at work that will give me little solace in knowing their "problem" as lead to my inability to work, permanent disability or even death. I don't suffer doped-up fools who come-up dirty while at work, then claim some addiction, go to rehab, and return to their job as if nothing happened-- have a "problem" then get to rehab BEFORE having an on-the-job accident and failing a piss test!

 

[WeAAsles]

Let me go one further in my pet peeve, as I put on my Mr. A-hole/Mr. Insensitive hat-- I don't give a damn if one has a substance abuse "problem" as their excuse for being under the influence as work. I don't care if it is booze, weed, meth, crack, etc. because if I am laid-up in a hospital (or worse) and unable to work because someone's "problem" comes into contact with me at work that will give me little solace in knowing their "problem" as lead to my inability to work, permanent disability or even death. I don't suffer doped-up fools who come-up dirty while at work, then claim some addiction, go to rehab, and return to their job as if nothing happened-- have a "problem" then get to rehab BEFORE having an on-the-job accident and failing a piss test!

Nothing here I would argue with. It’s actually enough already that the Company doesn’t protect me from all the exhausted workers already.