Dual Time

[PilotOperator]

A few questions regarding dual time: (single engine heli+ no instructor)
1)Pilot in right seat, pilot in left seat. Can he log time? What if duals are installed? What if pilot in left seat is not rated on type of machine being flow.
2)If no dual time can be logged in the above question...what are the different circumstances where you could?

 

[rotrhd1]

Maybe I''m missing something, but could you clarify things for me?

I''m assuming both pilots hold commercials, right? One of the chaps in not rated on the aircraft and the chap that is, isn''t an instructor.

Is the chap that is NOT rated sitting in the Pilot in Command seat? And in either case are the duals installed?

Thanks,

Mark.

 

[PilotOperator]

yes Mark you assumed correctly. Both pilots commercial, no instructor, duals installed. Two scenarios (right seat is pilot in command seat). One where pilot is in left seat, which you made a case for not being legal I think, and one where pilot is flying in the right seat. I guess I'm also asking is there any other way to log dual time in a single engine heli other than one person having an instructor rating? Also is it illegal if the pilot in the left seat is not endorsed on type and is flying the A/C?

 

[CTD]

With duals installed, if both persons are licenced and one of them has 10 hours on type, there need not be an instructor on board, and they can sit wherever they want. That''s how endoresements are given.

 

[rotrhd1]

CTD,

really, you can get an endorsement while not sitting in the PIC seat?

As far as I understood things, dual instruction can only be given by a quailified intructor.

I see your delema though. Only the guy rated on the aircraft can log the time as PIC so where does the guy not rated put the time in the log book? P2IC, or not in either dual or PIC but only in total time column? If he''s flying but not type rated it''s got to go somewhere.

 

[Randy_G]

rotrhd1 you have to look in a couple of places to get the complete answer. (CARS standards 421.40, and CARS 425.21 included below) As CTD points out any CPL-H can do an endorsement as long as they have more than 10 hours on type.

DIVISION XI - AIRCRAFT TYPE RATINGS
421.40 Blanket and Individual Type Ratings

(g) Helicopter - One Pilot
Within the 12 months preceding the application for the rating, an applicant for an individual aircraft type rating for a helicopter with a minimum flight crew requirement of one pilot shall have successfully completed:

(i) a flight test, on the helicopter type, for the issue of a Private or Commercial Pilot Licence - Helicopter; or
(ii) a Pilot Proficiency Check on the helicopter type; or
(iii) a qualifying flight under the supervision of a person qualified in accordance with CAR 425.21 (7) (B).

​

CAR 425.21 Qualifications of Flight Instructors
(7) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an aircraft type rating shall:

B) in the case of training a holder of a helicopter pilot permit or pilot licence:

(i) be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence; and

(ii) have experience of not less than 10 hours flight time on the type of helicopter used for the training;



Cheers

​

 

[PilotOperator]

So to give an endorsement you need to be a qualified instructor. Which requires you to have not less than 10 hrs on type and a comm licence? Or am I missing something?

 

[Blackmac]

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On 6/2/2003 118 PM PilotOperator wrote:

So to give an endorsement you need to be a qualified instructor. Which requires you to have not less than 10 hrs on type and a comm licence? Or am I missing something?

----------------​

An instructors rating is required to give a person the required instruction to write for any license.

Once an individual has a license, has at least ten hours on type, that pilot can give another licensed pilot an endorsement on any aircraft that the check pilot is endorsed on. Instructors rating is not required, only a CPL.

 

[CTD]

Rotrhd1 - he didn''t ask about endorsements, he asked "I guess I''m also asking is there any other way to log dual time in a single engine heli other than one person having an instructor rating? Also is it illegal if the pilot in the left seat is not endorsed on type and is flying the A/C?"

And ther answer is, as I said, and Blackmac and Randy reiterated, "With duals installed, if both persons are licenced and one of them has 10 hours on type, there need not be an instructor on board, and they can sit wherever they want."

The reference to how endorsements are given was intended to show that the person giving the type rating does not have to be an instructor. I''ve given several, and do not hold an instructor rating. Admittedly the wording as ambiguous.

 

[rotrhd1]

My appologies,

once I re-read my post I can see how I misled. I did not mean to suggest only instructors can give endorsements, rather by definition only they can give dual instruction, and dual instruction is only given to those who do not possess a licence. Is that right?

We''ve plainly flogged to death that anyone with 10 on type can give the rating. I thought, though, the guy getting had to be in the PIC seat. I guess the cars doesn''t say that so one could sit anywhere, but why would one not want to be in the PIC seat?

My appologies for any futher misunderstandings as english is a second language and I''m trying my best.

 

[CTD]

English is your second language? Me too. I''m from Newfoundland.