Don’t know how to manage an Airline?

[TWU informer]

Don’t know how to manage an Airline?
Then Just Hire a Consulting Firm.

What is it with Arpey and his desire to outsource leadership oversight that should be accomplished in-house?

If the man cannot run the Airline then he needs to step down. Does it really make sense to have folks on the payroll to manage while outside firms are hired to do the same task?

We have had more consulting firms running this Airline in the last 6 years than there are levels of management that should be taking care of these tasks.

To name a few:

Overland Resource Group
Boston Consulting Group
ECLAT Consulting
RLG Consulting

Outsourced H.R. and the Tulsa HR Management now takes care of things like Vendor Day, and Charity Organization Day that does nothing more than cost productivity time of employees as they fill out their forms on company time in hopes of winning some prize that they can longer afford to buy.


Now the Airline is going to hire a firm to watch over our compliance with FAA Safety Rules.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080411/american_ai...tions.html?.v=5

“The airline thought it had done the repair work two weeks ago, when it scrubbed more than 400 flights, but the FAA said the wiring still wasn't properly secured and stowed in wheel wells.
Chairman and Chief Executive Gerard Arpey said he took responsibility and that neither American's mechanics nor the FAA were to blame. He said the company would hire a consultant to help it comply with FAA safety rules in the future.â€￾

Meanwhile, the management team that hires outside firms for everything has to receive hefty bonuses to insure they do not leave and go elsewhere to manage.

I am now convinced that Mr. Arpey is in over his head, and is simply just getting by using outside consulting firms to manage the Airline and short of him leaving soon, this company is on a collision course that parallels that of Eastern Airlines in the video that the Overland Resource Group made every employee in Tulsa view.

How many redundant consultants doing the job of internal paid management does one Airline need to have to be successful?
:angry:
If CEO’s answer to every crisis is hiring a consultant, anybody can now qualify to run this Airline. The fact is this Airline is failing and the consulting firms are doing nothing more than making matters worse.

 

[ual777fan]

Don’t know how to manage an Airline?
Then Just Hire a Consulting Firm.

What is it with Arpey and his desire to outsource leadership oversight that should be accomplished in-house?

If the man cannot run the Airline then he needs to step down. Does it really make sense to have folks on the payroll to manage while outside firms are hired to do the same task?

We have had more consulting firms running this Airline in the last 6 years than there are levels of management that should be taking care of these tasks.

To name a few:

Overland Resource Group
Boston Consulting Group
ECLAT Consulting
RLG Consulting

Outsourced H.R. and the Tulsa HR Management now takes care of things like Vendor Day, and Charity Organization Day that does nothing more than cost productivity time of employees as they fill out their forms on company time in hopes of winning some prize that they can longer afford to buy.


Now the Airline is going to hire a firm to watch over our compliance with FAA Safety Rules.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080411/american_ai...tions.html?.v=5




Meanwhile, the management team that hires outside firms for everything has to receive hefty bonuses to insure they do not leave and go elsewhere to manage.

I am now convinced that Mr. Arpey is in over his head, and simply just getting by using outside consulting firms to manage the Airline and short of him leaving soon, this company is on a collision course that parallels that Eastern Airlines video that the Overland Resource Group made every employee in Tulsa view.

How many redundant consultants doing the job of internal paid management does one Airline need to have to be successful?
:angry:
If CEO’s answer to every crisis is hiring a consultant, anybody can now qualify to run this Airline. The fact is this Airline is failing and the consulting firms are doing nothing more than making matters worse.

Amen. I have never understood how consultants help companies anyways. What exactly do they do that hasn't already been done and probably rejected before. Most of the time these consultants have ZERO experience in the business, and propose ideas so laughably bad they should be shown the door (see TED at United). How will a group of consultants help AA better comply with an everchanging AD from the FAA? It won't. Some extra AMT's and more people in QA would be a much wiser use of the money.

But then what do I know? I just fly the airline.

 

[The Goose]

Don’t know how to manage an Airline?
Then Just Hire a Consulting Firm.

What is it with Arpey and his desire to outsource leadership oversight that should be accomplished in-house?

If the man cannot run the Airline then he needs to step down. Does it really make sense to have folks on the payroll to manage while outside firms are hired to do the same task?

We have had more consulting firms running this Airline in the last 6 years than there are levels of management that should be taking care of these tasks.

To name a few:

Overland Resource Group
Boston Consulting Group
ECLAT Consulting
RLG Consulting

Outsourced H.R. and the Tulsa HR Management now takes care of things like Vendor Day, and Charity Organization Day that does nothing more than cost productivity time of employees as they fill out their forms on company time in hopes of winning some prize that they can longer afford to buy.


Now the Airline is going to hire a firm to watch over our compliance with FAA Safety Rules.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080411/american_ai...tions.html?.v=5




Meanwhile, the management team that hires outside firms for everything has to receive hefty bonuses to insure they do not leave and go elsewhere to manage.

I am now convinced that Mr. Arpey is in over his head, and is simply just getting by using outside consulting firms to manage the Airline and short of him leaving soon, this company is on a collision course that parallels that of Eastern Airlines in the video that the Overland Resource Group made every employee in Tulsa view.

How many redundant consultants doing the job of internal paid management does one Airline need to have to be successful?
:angry:
If CEO’s answer to every crisis is hiring a consultant, anybody can now qualify to run this Airline. The fact is this Airline is failing and the consulting firms are doing nothing more than making matters worse.

Arpey and crew tried first to get the mechs and related to do their job with the "working together (for them)" crap - maybe it didn't work out for them very well so now they'll hire another yet, as you say.

That Eastern Airlines video you referred to looked to most as a warning to (mis)management. Guess they didn't have to watch it.

 

[TWU informer]

I would like to know why the Pilot's didnt go after them on this outsourced Consulting Management philosophy rather than flight cancellations.

 

[The Goose]

Amen. I have never understood how consultants help companies anyways. What exactly do they do that hasn't already been done and probably rejected before. Most of the time these consultants have ZERO experience in the business, and propose ideas so laughably bad they should be shown the door (see TED at United). How will a group of consultants help AA better comply with an everchanging AD from the FAA? It won't. Some extra AMT's and more people in QA would be a much wiser use of the money.

But then what do I know? I just fly the airline.

The way things have become in business, an individual with no real-world experience but holding a degree in basketweaving is more credible in any given subject than an individual with years of experience in same and an understanding of a given subject which is second to none, just as you said.

Sometimes it seems more like an attempt to keep the clubhouse closed to the great unwashed, even though their knowledge could be of great value.

It's all about appearances and repaying favors - reality doesn't enter into this picture. We've all sat back and scratched our heads marvelling at the display of stupidity, not just at AMR, but many other large corporations.

 

[eolesen]

Remember when Reagan said "Trust but verify"???? Same thing applies here.

Even if you're a CPA or financial wiz, you're better off hiring someone like Taxmasters if you get audited by the IRS. It's the same reason to have an outside accounting firm audit your books when you're a publicly traded company. You need someone with no conflict of interest to come in and validate.

 

[TWU informer]

What was ECLAT validating?

What was Overland Resource validating?

What was Boston Consutling validating?

What is RLG Consutling validating these days?

What is the outsourced HR department validating?

How is the new consulting group going to validate AD's that have moving target language changes?

How many consulting firms did C.R. Smith use and what were they validating?

How many consulting firms did Robert Crandall use and what were they validating?

 

[eolesen]

Who invented liquid soap, and why?.....

Why to unions and management have to use an outside arbitrator? Why not just take someone already on payroll?


I know for a fact Crandall brought in outside consultants. Boston Consulting had dedicated office space in CP5 for about two years in the early 90's, which was before the FA strike, and well before he retired. They were looking at ways of combining departments which did more or less the same things. Wound up clearing about one entire floor's worth of cube space at HDQ in the process and there were about 500 or so people who were either RIF'd or laid off due to job performance. Ironically, I wound up with my first management job because the RIF that followed wound up having more early-out takers than expected.

 

[The Goose]

Remember when Reagan said "Trust but verify"???? Same thing applies here.

Even if you're a CPA or financial wiz, you're better off hiring someone like Taxmasters if you get audited by the IRS. It's the same reason to have an outside accounting firm audit your books when you're a publicly traded company. You need someone with no conflict of interest to come in and validate.

Eric:

Even though an outside entity isn't supposed to be partial, one has to remember who's paying them. KPMG and a couple others are in a helluva lot of trouble over that, mainly because they tried to make the guy with the purse look better even though they were supposed to be impartial.

The trick is to have the individual's (or an entire group's) boss far enough up in the corporate structure they'd not be accountable locally, but only to the one which claims responsibility, such as our little darling Arpey did. That will certainly grate local management the wrong way and eventually, they'd attempt to get that responsibility moved to local control. All that would have been accomplished to that point would be wasted time and some director's ego would be fed.

I've seen this scenario happen in other places; one company , however, had a wonderful way of dealing with the jealousy stirred in the management ranks. One woman (manager, director, office whore - who knows) whined because SHE could handle the responsibility (in this case, it was a material certification program based on NRC regs.). She was shown the door immediately. That's not to say there weren't other issues involved, but she was gone - right then.

American and AMR, like many large corporations, seldom terminate anyone but worker bees - anyone else who's shown the door simply isn't in the "club".

 

[eolesen]

Bull. I know of a couple dozen managers and above who were fired for something as minor as a difference of opinion with their VP. Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't being done. It just gets handled with a lot more discretion. It might not be the next day, week, or month. But it happens. When you're on a contract, there are i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed before you can fire someone. Doesn't matter if it's union or management.

If you're so concerned about conflict of interest, handle it like arbitrations --- both sides have a say in who gets picked. There's no reason you can't ask for the same on who comes in to look at the AD compliance.

When an outside consultant is evaluating a specific department, they are usually accountable to one or two levels above that department head. In the case of BCG, they were reporting to Crandall and Executive Committee. In the case of the AD audit, I'd assume they're reporting to Arpey because Reding has an interest in appearing to look golden.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bull. I know of a couple dozen managers and above who were fired for something as minor as a difference of opinion with their VP. Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't being done. It just gets handled with a lot more discretion. It might not be the next day, week, or month. But it happens. When you're on a contract, there are i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed before you can fire someone. Doesn't matter if it's union or management.

Exactly thats why workers are better off unionized it gives them better leverage to get fairer contracts.

If you're so concerned about conflict of interest, handle it like arbitrations --- both sides have a say in who gets picked. There's no reason you can't ask for the same on who comes in to look at the AD compliance

When a company has to keep bringing in outside consultants it means that the people who are being paid to manage the company dont know what they are doing. It would be like hiring someone to change a tire while the mechanics simply watch them. The stockholders are pay two to do the job of one.

 

[eolesen]

So, you think after all of the crap AA's been dragged thru, that the public and the shareholders are going to accept self-auditing?

Ain't gonna happen. AA's credibility, rightly or wrongly, is shot. So is that of the mechanics. You need someone to come in and declare that the Emporer has no clothes right now.

 

[Bob Owens]

So, you think after all of the crap AA's been dragged thru, that the public and the shareholders are going to accept self-auditing?

Ain't gonna happen. AA's credibility, rightly or wrongly, is shot. So is that of the mechanics. You need someone to come in and declare that the Emporer has no clothes right now.

Maybe the Emperor needs to be replaced.

Other than Garton I dont see anyone questioning the credibility of mechanics.

 

[eolesen]

Hey, Bob, did you have an attorney represent you when the TWU ousted you?

Why? Weren't you competent and credible enough to represent yourself?

 

[The Goose]

Bull. I know of a couple dozen managers and above who were fired for something as minor as a difference of opinion with their VP. Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't being done. It just gets handled with a lot more discretion. It might not be the next day, week, or month. But it happens. When you're on a contract, there are i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed before you can fire someone. Doesn't matter if it's union or management.

If you're so concerned about conflict of interest, handle it like arbitrations --- both sides have a say in who gets picked. There's no reason you can't ask for the same on who comes in to look at the AD compliance.

When an outside consultant is evaluating a specific department, they are usually accountable to one or two levels above that department head. In the case of BCG, they were reporting to Crandall and Executive Committee. In the case of the AD audit, I'd assume they're reporting to Arpey because Reding has an interest in appearing to look golden.

You do have a point re: a joint union/company pick, but ... I'm afraid any method of choosing an auditor at this point would be likened to the fox guarding the henhouse.