Do You Think The Pilots Have To Give More?

[fatherabraham]

On the street,

The rumblings I hear support your post.

The silver lining is the highly experienced Captains who are in essence training these folks at insulting wages . Lord willing, Usairways will survive this situation.

FA

 

[pitguy]

I fly several times a month and allot of it is on RJs. I see older ex-legacy carrier pilots for the majority. They are flying for less and soon will be U pilots because they know it is better to do that and start all over. Inside word at U is management is planning to bring the pilot group in line pay wise so the airline can compete and finally turn the corner.


--“It is better to have a job when trying to find a job.â€￾

 

[Borescope]

how much do you think the pilots should make, 80K, 60K?

[post="244678"][/post]​

These would be good starting numbers

 

[Borescope]

Fact remains the U pilots make way more than Jet Blue pilots and U will be unable to compete until they reduce their wages. U did not go far enough with the cuts when they cut the quick deal with ALPA and now they will have no choice but to go back. To not do it would be grave!
www.airlinepilotpay.com/

Captain pay comparison.

U Captains make $64 less per hour than comparable Captain at Southwest.

U Captains make $14 less per hour than comparable Captain at Jet Blue.

So much for the "facts" Pit.
A320 Driver :cop:

You're busted!!!

[post="244690"][/post]​

But there productivity is 2 to 3 times yours and that's where the company can prosper. So much for the "facts"

 

[pitguy]

Jet Blue pilots are on the cheaper end of the pay scale and U pilots are all maxed out. I know U has senior pilots, but U can not compete with more productive pilots making less money. So either take a 25% pay cut now or a much bigger 100% pay cut this summer.


-You danced to the music and now it is time to pay the fiddler!!!

 

[A320 Driver]

Jet Blue pilots are on the cheaper end of the pay scale and U pilots are all maxed out.  I know U has senior pilots, but U can not compete with more productive pilots making less money.  So either take a 25% pay cut now or a much bigger 100% pay cut this summer.
-You danced to the music and now it is time to pay the fiddler!!!

[post="246104"][/post]​

Just how much more productive can a U pilot be? They fly 85 to 95 hours a month hard time depending on the paycap set by the company. They sit on their cans in the crewrooms for 3 to 4 hours at a time even though they have complained about it for years. Problem is, it doesn't cost the company any money for them to sit around the hubs. Their duty rigs are worthless and they spend about 25% more days away from home than they used to.

Stop trying to cause trouble. That's what this whole thread is about.


A320 Driver :down:

 

[ONTHESTREET]

But there productivity is 2 to 3 times yours and that's where the company can prosper. So much for the "facts"

[post="246100"][/post]​

Productivity doesn't mean anything to pilot hourly wages. Pilots only get paid when the engines are running anyhow. If U had the productivity of SWA, they would have to start recalling pilots since most are flying max hours allowed now. You have to remember that per the FAR's pilots are limited in the number of hours they can fly in one month and yearly. Pilots have for years complained about the 3 hour productivity breaks......I guess it has not changed any since I left.

I spoke with a guy last week that was complaining that he had a 4 day trip that only flew 14 hours. 96 hours away from home, and only fly and get paid for 14. As long as the company is scheduling crap like that, the airline is not going to recover.

If you want recovery, you must schedule 30 min turns like SWA does, and keep the planes moving. However, I seriously doubt that places like PHL and LGA are capable of 30 min turns. From what I hear it takes 30 minutes just to find a groundcrew to start unloading the thing in the first place. Even back in the better times it took a cattle prod to get a gate agent or pushback crew in LGA. I cannot count how many times I sat with the doors closed and the jetway pulled back waiting for a tug driver for a push. Don't remember the gate number in LGA but there was one that gave you a view into the breakroom, many times we would have 15 or so mechanics and rampers sitting in there watching TV, all the while we were calling ops every 2 minutes looking for a push back crew. Hung my head out the window one day and asked a passing mechanic if we could get a push....his answer "It's not my gate"..........we waited another 10 minutes before somebody woke up our "Gate guy" Other times I have been threatened with a grievance when I tried to help get passenger strollers off the airplane. Nobody around doing squat...until I tried to get them myself, then 3 guys out of the woodwork screaming at me because I was trying to help out a passenger....you know, passenger, the people who pay the salaries at the airline. Trust me, I never wanted to get them myself, but I was the U employee that was there and the passengers were looking to me for help.

Go to a SWA gate and observe the activity from the arrival of an airplane to when it pushes back............Then you will see why U is failing horribly. SWA does what it takes to get a bird turned, not uncommon to see the Captain out there tossing bags when they get in a pinch.

Until the entire corporate culture changes...its doomed.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Productivity doesn't mean anything to pilot hourly wages.  Pilots only get paid when the engines are running anyhow. 

I spoke with a guy last week that was complaining that he had a 4 day trip that only flew 14 hours.  96 hours away from home,  and only fly and get paid for 14.  As long as the company is scheduling crap like that, the airline is not going to recover.

  Even back in the better times it took a cattle prod to get a gate agent or pushback crew in LGA.  I cannot count how many times I sat with the doors closed and the jetway pulled back waiting for a tug driver for a push.  Don't remember the gate number in LGA but there was one that gave you a view into the breakroom,  many times we would have 15 or so mechanics and rampers sitting in there watching TV,  all the while we were calling ops every 2 minutes looking for a push back crew.  Hung my head out the window one day and asked a passing mechanic if we could get a push....his answer "It's not my gate"..........we waited another 10 minutes before somebody woke up our "Gate guy"    Other times I have been threatened with a grievance when I tried to help get passenger strollers off the airplane.  Nobody around doing squat...until I tried to get them myself,  then 3 guys out of the woodwork screaming at me because I was trying to help out a passenger....you know, passenger, the people who pay the salaries at the airline.  Trust me, I never wanted to get them myself,  but I was the U employee that was there and the passengers were looking to me for help.

Go to a SWA gate and observe the activity from the arrival of an airplane to when it pushes back............Then you will see why U is failing horribly.  SWA does what it takes to get a bird turned,  not uncommon to see the Captain out there tossing bags when they get in a pinch.

Until the entire corporate culture changes...its doomed.

[post="246116"][/post]​

Pilots are hourly employees not management you may want to think you get paid only for time when engine started because it looks impressive but you actually are getting paid for hours away.

I wonder how many times they sat waiting in the weather for a pilot that is talking or eating or whatever else.

How do you know that mechanic wasn't going to push his gate to avoid a delay? How do you know your push back mechanic was working a broken aircraft on a short staffed crew? Same wth the baggage handlers. pissing, moaning and blaming others that's what its all about.

Its funny you have no problem doing other peoples job's putting them out of work but let anyone suggest someone do your job or farm it out. Oh well I can't be replaced too bad.

 

[ONTHESTREET]

Pilots are hourly employees not management you may want to think you get paid only for time when engine started because it looks impressive but you actually are getting paid for hours away.

I wonder how many times they sat waiting in the weather for a pilot that is talking or eating or whatever else.

How do you know that mechanic wasn't going to push his gate to avoid a delay? How do you know your push back mechanic was working a broken aircraft on a short staffed crew? Same wth the baggage handlers. pissing, moaning and blaming others that's what its all about.

Its funny you have no problem doing other peoples job's putting them out of work but let anyone suggest someone do your job or farm it out. Oh well I can't be replaced too bad.

[post="246132"][/post]​

I have already been replaced, three years ago. Some contract airline is flying an RJ on the routes I used to fly in a 737.

I couldn't give a hoot about USAirs survival one way or the other anymore. In fact it would do my current career good if you finish imploding. I was not trying to assign blame. I just relayed factual information about my time as a pilot at the airline. I am simply stating the obvious, unless you morons quit fighting among yourselves it will shortly be over. You have management issues, but you also have tremendous performance and customer service problems. You cannot control the management problems, but Piss poor performance out on the ramp, lack of customer service, and in general crappy attitudes toward fellow employees and customers......that is all your own doing. Pilots have their own issues going on also, but they are there safely moving the planes.

I can understand the feelings, I have been there with you. But I NEVER EVER let the customers see it or be affected by it if I could help it. What I saw as a paying passenger was inexcuseable.

As far as doing someone elses job? Well chuckles, if it doesn't get done by the people who are supposed to do it, and you don't want anybody else to do it.......where does that leave the paying passengers?............screwed, thats where.

Which by the way if you screw the passenger, you triple screwed yourself. The passenger has lots of airline choices....you have one.

Enjoy your liquidation......with performances like PHL, you earned it.

 

[pitguy]

The pilot group should have given RJ relief years ago when asked instead of putting U in the situation it is in now. Pilots at U have been historically paid not to fly. Now they are going to pay the price for all of their years of 'playing around' and not supporting the company like it needed to be. The pilot group will accept further cuts because they have no choice and they know it.

 

[luvn737s]

If a start-up airline can offer better pay and benefits, then why keep USAir around? Scuttle the whole thing and start from scratch. What's the benefit in the USAir name?

A start-up would require competent, innovative management to compete successfully with WN, so the current office holders need not apply.

Aren't the current stakeholders betting on U getting wages down to first-year start-up rates anyhow? Why enable them by going along with further cuts? If they wanted to start a new airline, they would have to prove to the investment community that they could attract people at the rates they want to pay, and sustain a competitive airline on people who will accept that rate.

Would Jet Blue be just as profitable and productive if they paid $17 less an hour? Why doesn't WN drop it's pay rate to the current U book? Are they just more generous over there? Are they making a grave mistake as well?

 

[pitguy]

Jet Blue and Southwest or not in U's shoes. Also U is not paying a start up airlines first year pay rates to pilots. They are paying 'allot' more. U is not in the same positions as the aforementioned airlines and is a very unique airline by itself. Unless fuel drops soon U will die off. Fuel will not be dropping soon so guess what. If the pilots want a job they need to pay up. Don't blame me, I just want to see U make it. Best wishes to all at U.

 

[luvn737s]

Reply to the masses (Thank you for your replies):
I have no class envy as I make more than most pilots do.
.

Until the person or persons paying you thinks you're overpaid and finds a replacement willing to do more for less.

I don't mean to make you paranoid, but there are thousands of them out there.

 

[luvn737s]

Jet Blue and Southwest or not in U's shoes. Also U is not paying a start up airlines first year pay rates to pilots. They are paying 'allot' more. U is not in the same positions as the aforementioned airlines and is a very unique airline by itself. Unless fuel drops soon U will die off. Fuel will not be dropping soon so guess what. If the pilots want a job they need to pay up. Don't blame me, I just want to see U make it. Best wishes to all at U.

[post="246156"][/post]​

You still haven't answered my question. Why should U make it?

And there are no unique airlines in case you haven't noticed. The industry produces a commodity and operates as an oligopoly. WN operates with a current fuel cost advantage, but that won't last forever and fares will rise modestly across the board since fuel will not drop significantly in the long -term.

What advantage is there in U making it if it can only do so as a result of employee extortion? Do you really have that much concern for the well-being of the pilots and their families that you want them to have the security of working at a shell of their former employer? Is there more success to be had in a disallusioned workforce whose resentment is rooted in nostalgia or a fresh group that looks with promise to the future?

In short, I'm asking why are you entitled to benefit from others sacrifice?

 

[foreright]

This whole thread is a joke...U pilots are at the bottom of legacy wages, the bottom of LCC wages, hell comair pilots make $110 an hour almost as much as 321 capt. This group has done more thatn any other. There will be no more cuts I promise you! I am very supprised that 75% of this group feels the pilots should give more. After furloughing 40% of the list, 50% pay cuts and always leading the way to concessions.