Do You Think The Pilots Have To Give More?

[planejane]

planejane,

First, how it works....

Open time (flying that doesn't have a pilot assigned, whether captain, F/O, or both) is available for a blockholder to "pick up" 2 days before the departure. This open time constitutes what is commonly called the bid sheet. Of course, the time is specific as to base, equipment, and seat - a F/O can't pick up captain time, Airbus pilot can't pick up 737 time, etc. Naturally, open time that isn't picked up by a blockholder goes to the reserve pilots.

Now to productivity...

Here it's something of a double-edged sword. Having the bid sheet allows pilots to "maximize" their time - if their awarded block is short of the monthly maximum, they can pick up time (or pick up a higher time trip and drop a lower paying trip). This improves productivity by getting more flying from the pilots.

The downside is the extra schedulers needed to administer the bid sheet. Supposedly, at some point it is going to be automated (computerized) but not yet - we either give a list of desired trips to the scheduler and call back to see which we got (if any) or they call us back when it's our turn in seniority and tell us what's available to pick from.

In my view, the bid sheet is only unproductive in the sense that the extra schedulers are needed (which automation will go a long way towards negating). There'll always be open time, it's only a question of who flies it - which in and of itself doesn't affect the pay for that time.

Jim

ps - this all concerns the working agreement as it now stands. In the past, there were situations when the bid sheet caused extra pay - primarily in what are called split-trips where one pilot flew part of a trip and another flew the rest.

[post="244741"][/post]​

Thanks for the info.
My observation is do we need it. I hear that we are the only airline that has it and it causes U to employ more flight crews. Also after loosing 611 Mil do we need to keep a scheduling department for the "bid sheet" ? I do not want to see anyone else loose their job, but U needs to streamline everywhere.

 

[jimntx]

I know it is (in part). However, when making the determination, I think it's considered backwards. You graduate to the bigger airplanes when you have more hours, because you're likely to be a more skilled pilot. Coincidental to this, you also produce more ASMs, so you get paid more because you produce more.

But, that is assuming that time on the job = more skill in every case. I've known a number of people in industry (airline and oil) that have been on the job for 20 years. However, they do not have 20 years experience and learning to show for it. They have 6 months experience 40 times.

Read that sentence closely. That's not a "skill" argument; that's a seniority argument. If you had 25 years at EA before they folded, and you got hired by AA, your skill and three bucks buys you a Frappuccino. It's not the skill.

[post="244788"][/post]​

Precisely my point. You are basing the skill portion of your argument on an assumption of more experience = more skill when, in fact, it is strictly a seniority issue. And, seniority by airline at that. A 777 pilot from UAL starts at AA in the right seat of an S80. Not saying it's right or wrong. It just is.

 

[pitguy]

"I feel between $65 with a top out of about $90 is fine, but it is not up to me to decide".

Fortunately, it is not your decision. $65-90 an hour for a pilot flying a 140+ seat aircraft is, pardon my french, ridiculous....

...If U management is unable to run a successful operation with the current pilotpay scale, then U needs to go away and cease to exist...

[post="244747"][/post]​

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Dizel8,
I should have been clearer. I meant $65 to $90 thousand per year. Pilots making six figures and working for a money losing U should be the exception and not the rule. I do agree it takes some skill to fly and that is why everyone is not a pilot. There are tons of unemployed pilots that would love to come and fly for U at those rates. It is very unfortunate that the pilot group would not give RJ relief to U sooner and hence this mess would not be as it is now. For that it will cost your wallet more. U will not survive unless the pilot group introduces another wage cut of 25% or more. Once the lights go out you will not have a second chance and I can assure you that your future looks bleak at best. Ante up! It's your bet and you’re holding a losing hand.

 

[foreright]

Fact remains the U pilots make way more than Jet Blue pilots and U will be unable to compete until they reduce their wages. U did not go far enough with the cuts when they cut the quick deal with ALPA and now they will have no choice but to go back. To not do it would be grave!
--Pilots will be responsible for thousands of unemployed workers and the death of U.

[post="244666"][/post]​

you have no idea wtf you are talking about!

 

[FWAAA]

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Dizel8,
I should have been clearer. I meant $65 to $90 thousand per year. Pilots making six figures and working for a money losing U should be the exception and not the rule.

[post="244806"][/post]​

Since pilots are limited to 1,000 hours per year, $65 to $90/hour roughly translates to $65,000 to $90,000 per year. Not exactly, but close enough for conversation.

 

[pitguy]

Time will tell, but at this point it looks like U will not make it and if the pilot group would trade wages for a job then it will work. Yes, I said "trade'. If they don't give wages then they will not have a job. I know the pilot group will do the right thing when asked here shortly.

 

[28yrsnojob]

I said THis a year ago pilots should have gave back 30 to 35% in real
w2 plus bennies and the rest of the unions at least 25% plus bennies
. they will be back for more .
I will say in about 2 to 3 weeks

 

[pitguy]

28yrsnojob,
Your right! Sad to say, but I do not know where else the additional monies could come from. The pilot group I am afraid will kill U off along with it's employees and their families.

 

[mweiss]

You are basing the skill portion of your argument on an assumption of more experience = more skill

Actually, that wasn't my argument at all. It was my interpretation of yours. My argument is that, regardless of pilot skill (above minimum thresholds), a 777 produces more than twice the ASMs of a 737. The pilots have a compelling argument for higher wages commensurate with that increase in productivity.

 

[nycbusdriver]

28yrsnojob,
Your right! Sad to say, but I do not know where else the additional monies could come from. The pilot group I am afraid will kill U off along with it's employees and their families.

[post="244828"][/post]​

In that case, let me be the first to say: "NO" to further cuts.

Let it die.

 

[pitguy]

I bet a majority of the pilots would approve further cuts because they do realize it is better for them to accept the cuts than to start over. The ones that don't want to can just quit. They can easily be replaced.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Class envy is a terrible thing.

 

[UseYourHead]

These posts reek of fools brew.

Get real, worry about your new job, by your ranting you should worry...

Let the pilots deal with our own issues, we always do.

I bet a majority of the pilots would approve further cuts because they do realize it is better for them to accept the cuts than to start over. The ones that don't want to can just quit. They can easily be replaced.

[post="244838"][/post]​

 

[BoeingBoy]

Let the pilots deal with our own issues, we always do.

[post="244896"][/post]​

We've even got some who are happy to deal with other's issues for them.....

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

Fact remains the U pilots make way more than Jet Blue pilots and U will be unable to compete until they reduce their wages. U did not go far enough with the cuts when they cut the quick deal with ALPA and now they will have no choice but to go back. To not do it would be grave!
--Pilots will be responsible for thousands of unemployed workers and the death of U.

You got it backwards Jetblue pilots make more than we do at least for the 320 family for a 12 year capt. they make about 17 more per hour .