DL rumored to acquire used A340-600s

[AdAstraPerAspera]

I would think they would want to hang on to them as they offer flexibility an A380 can't

 

[WorldTraveler]

they have a host of new generation aircraft on order.

EK, like SQ, keeps aircraft for shorter lengths of time than most western airlines.

But the 773ER is still expensive and it might well be cheaper for DL to buy them new from Boeing if DL decides to go that route.

The 346 idea is not the only option that DL has researched but it appears to be the one that they are pursuing.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

they have a host of new generation aircraft on order.

EK, like SQ, keeps aircraft for shorter lengths of time than most western airlines.

But the 773ER is still expensive and it might well be cheaper for DL to buy them new from Boeing if DL decides to go that route.

The 346 idea is not the only option that DL has researched but it appears to be the one that they are pursuing.

 
Your phrasing makes it sound as if the 773ER isn't the latest generation widebody in it's class

 

[WorldTraveler]

and how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

they have a host of new generation aircraft on order.

But the 773ER is still expensive and it might well be cheaper for DL to buy them new from Boeing if DL decides to go that route.
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

The 350/787 are new generation. There is no generation beyond them that is known.

The fact that the 773 is expensive doesn't make it any less this or a future generation aircraft.

as was noted in the study that was highlighted, the 773ER has to be discounted about 50% off the MSRP in order to provide economics comparable to new generation aircraft like the 350 and it is not at all certain Boeing would do that.

It is also not certain that DL would be willing to take on that much debt even if Boeing would discount that much given that there is another option that involves less cash and debt and comes out to a similar total cost because of very, very low acquisition costs.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Did you not read the part where I said it is the latest generation in its class? Or do you actually believe a 350/787 is a 77W replacement?

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Honestly, you ridicule others for their failure to "grasp" the industry, yet having a conversation with you is an exercise in frustration because it seems you need to be explained everything.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Did you not read the part where I said it is the latest generation in its class? Or do you actually believe a 350/787 is a 77W replacement?

yes, the 350 and 787 and the coming 777X are replacement aircraft for the current generation 777s.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Old 777s, yes, but the only replacement for the 77W (the 773ER as you like to say) is the A350-1000 (years away) and the 777X is, to borrow a phrase from Richard Anderson, "an experimental aircraft" also years away, but anyway, I give up.

 

[Kev3188]

Honestly, you ridicule others for their failure to "grasp" the industry, yet having a conversation with you is an exercise in frustration because it seems you need to be explained everything.

You realize that's by design , right?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Old 777s, yes, but the only replacement for the 77W (the 773ER as you like to say) is the A350-1000 (years away) and the 777X is, to borrow a phrase from Richard Anderson, "an experimental aircraft" also years away, but anyway, I give up.

I know it frosts you to admit that AA is putting the 773ER into service at the end of its sales life but the 787 and 350 families are indeed direct replacements for the 772 and 773.

The 359, which enters service in a few months, matches fairly close what the 773ER does while the 350-1000 is not far enough away to make AA's 773ERs no longer current generation with some aircraft 5 years or less old when the -1000 enters service in less than 4 years.

The 787-10 is not that far away. Look at when UA will put them into service.

AA undoubtedly did not get discounts high enough to offset the fact that the 773ER will no longer be cutting edge for 10-15 years of its life in service.

You invite ridicule when you don't understand basic facts about the aircraft that you fly or airports or cities you claim to know but don't hesitate to throw stones when you are shown the truth.

It is precisely because DL knows the 346 is 20% less fuel efficient than the 773 and will become increasingly obsolete as new generation aircraft come on line that DL is not willing to pay much for the 346 being at the end of its life but is also willing to take an aircraft that can push back a 747 replacement by another 7-10 years, allow DL to grow now, and potentially result in much larger discounts after the rush of shoppers is over.

It's kind of like buying Christmas decorations on the day after Christmas. They last for years regardless of when you buy them. The question is how much you pay.

 

[700UW]

Boeing hasnt even built the 787-10, you must mean the 787-9.
 
Do we have to educate you? LOL.
 

Today we increased our 787 Dreamliner order to 65 aircraft (including six previously delivered aircraft) with an order for 20 787-10s. We’re the North American launch customer for the 787-10 and expect delivery of our first aircraft in 2018.

We ordered 10 incremental 787-10X aircraft and will convert 10 existing 787s on order to 787-10s, enabling us to further update our international widebody fleet by replacing older, less efficient aircraft. The advanced technology and composite construction of the 787 reduces fuel burn and carbon emissions, while providing a superior customer experience.
 

 


Read more at https://hub.united.com/en-us/news/company-operations/pages/united-orders-787-10-aircraft.aspx#gjmx84FyXkR0z12D.99

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Celebrating the best in commercial aviation is not privy to the discounts AA received on its 773ERs, as much as he would like to pretend otherwise.
 
And isn't DL publicly considering the 77W as a 744 replacement? A plane "at the end of its sales life"?
 
That is a rhetorical question, please don't feel compelled to answer

 

[WorldTraveler]

I posted an article that compared the fuel efficiency of various models of current and new generation aircraft and it showed that the 773ER delivers comparable economics IF the sales price is discounted by 50%.

There is a continuum at which various aircraft are comparable in total economics based on fuel price vs. maintenance vs. ownership costs.

At some point many aircraft are viable based on a low enough acquisition cost while others such as the MD-11 will never again be viable contenders.

I don't have specific information regarding what kinds of discounts AA received but it is doubtful that they received 50% discounts since multiple sources have said Boeing wasn't offering discounts that high and still may not be. They have a backlog of aircraft, some of which were ordered years ago, so they are only now beginning to have to discount to finish off the 773's production run before the larger 787s and 350s and the 77X make the 772/3ER and 77L economically obsolete - or they have to be discounted very deeply in order to continue to sell.

by the time the 787-10 and 350-1000 are in service, what will be the age of AA's youngest 773ER? and how many 787-9s will AA have in service by that point?