DL plans MCO-GRU service

[WorldTraveler]

the 330 won't be used for MCO-GRU which is schedule to be a 767.

the 333 is scheduled for ATL-GRU and GIG as well as for ATL-MUC and FRA. IIRC, DL has never sent the 333 to MUC. The modifications/increased MTOW and new aircraft are opening up routes to the 333 that have not seen it before and indirectly freeing up 767s that can be used for other routes such as MCO-GRU

I asked dawg to let me know what ship numbers are used for those flights when they start as well as the MTOW on those aircraft.

he can tell us what mods were done to those aircraft but I specifically noted that 700 correctly noted that some aircraft required significant landing gear and brake related modifications in order to be recertified to heavier MTOWs.

and the option to increase the MTOW was NOT available before the 242T models which is why DL has not used the 330s to Brazil before.

 

[jimntx]

You will keep on until you get the last word, won't you?  Actually, it's until everyone else gets bored to tears with pointing out your misstatements of fact, outright lies, and fantasies spilling from your brain.  You refuse to entertain the idea that you might be wrong on occasion.  It's why I stopped communicating with you.  I have no time in my life for perfect (in their own mind) people.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

ATL-GRU and ATL-GIG are both scheduled with increased capacity on the 333.

 

the 330 won't be used for MCO-GRU which is schedule to be a 767..

 
The issue being discusses was the use of the 333 on ATL-GRU and  the NW 333 ability (in dawgs opinion) or inability (your opinion) to fly the route.  Not the aircraft to be used for MCO-GRU.  Spin away.

 

[topDawg]

I'm well aware that it is a paperwork change

STOP! 
No it isn't genus. 
 

The 242T 333s have the center wingbox tank activate, along with some other aerodynamic changes (IIRC things like new flap track fairings). The extra fuel tank is not something that, at this time, can be added to any 333s that came off the line before the first 242t aircraft. 
 
 

doesn't increase the thrust of the engines.

there is not a 242T 333 currently with anything higher than 
 
wait for it 
wait for it
 
lower thrust engines than the current 235T Delta birds. The GE engines, as i have told you 100 times, have about 200-300lbs of thrust LESS than the PW4168s. Delta did NOT order the engine because of thrust but because they got a better deal from GE. 
 

Priceless.

its crazy that someone who clearly doesn't even know what a TCDS is the resident expert on what an airplane can or can't do. 

 

When US got the 333s a year later we modded them in-house to increase maximum takeoff weight.
Involved a lot of mods, including landing gear change etc....

US didn't up the MTOW to 242t though. My guess is it was a change to go up to 235T. Not sure what MTOW the US 333s came from the factory with but they are older and i believe came off the line before 235T was an option. (probably 212T) 

 

[Kev3188]

Good info and thanks, Dawg.

Also, I don't know what a TCDS is either, but would like to...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't need to get the last word. I do NEED to be able to discuss factually based topics which is why I just want dawg to answer the question of what DL did to upgrade the MTOW on the 332s and has DL or will DL increase the MTOW of the PMNW 333s.

and then tell me which ship numbers will be used for ATL-GIG and GRU and the MTOW of those aircraft.

 

[topDawg]

Good info and thanks, Dawg.

Also, I don't know what a TCDS is either, but would like to...

Type certificate data sheet.
 
You can find them on www.FAA.gov
 
It gives you all kinds of info, including what engine types go with what aircraft and what weights go with what engines.
 
For example, for the 242T A330-300 the only aircraft currently certified has 68K (or less, 63,500lbs IIRC) engines.
 
Its a great place to go to learn about aircraft types. Gives you all the options available for each airplane. We don't use them to much in the commercial field but they are a must have when you are working on general aviation. You always check the TCDS to make sure that the right engine is on the right plane. And for props the right prop is on the right engine on the right plane.
 
In general engine thrust changes are just a software change, thrust plug change and paper work. Some engines though it is not possible. For example, the CF6-80C2B6F engine on the 767-300ER is a higher thrust engine than the CF6-80C2B8F on the 767-400ER. However you can not simply change a B6F into a B8F. You also can't put a CF6-80C2B6F on a 767-400ER. (or a B8F on a 763) 
Fun fact, because of the engine differences Delta use to outsource the B8Fs. They can run down the same "line" as the B6F though (so can the CF6-80E1 engine on the A330) 
On a Pratt 2000 though change a 2037 to a 2040 is pretty simple. Matter of fact some of the 757s at Delta have 2040s on them and those engines get downgraded to 2037s about 2/3 through their lives to increase time between overhaul.        

 

[WorldTraveler]

good info, dawg.

but doesn't tell us what DL is doing.

can you answer:

1. what did DL do to increase MTOW on the PMNW 332s?

2. has or will DL increase MTOW on any of the PMNW 333s?

3. what aircraft tail number of subtype (PMNW or original DL build 333s) will DL use on ATL-GRU and ATL-GIG

and

4. what is the MTOW those aircraft have or will have?

 

[Kev3188]

Excellent, and thanks again Dawg...

 

[topDawg]

I don't need to get the last word. I do NEED to be able to discuss factually based topics which is why I just want dawg to answer the question of what DL did to upgrade the MTOW on the 332s and has DL or will DL increase the MTOW of the PMNW 333s.

and then tell me which ship numbers will be used for ATL-GIG and GRU and the MTOW of those aircraft.

I have not heard of an MTOW upgrades for the 330 fleet. AFAIK the 332 fleet is and has been 238K for as long as they have been at Delta. 
 
And i have already told you, right now ATL-GRU/GIG/MUC and any other 333 route is scheduled to see both the GE and PW birds. They have yet to be separated due to the lack of numbers in the fleet.  (matter of fact they have mostly been doing AMS turns for ETOPS certification)  

 

[topDawg]

good info, dawg.

but doesn't tell us what DL is doing.

can you answer:

1. what did DL do to increase MTOW on the PMNW 332s?

2. has or will DL increase MTOW on any of the PMNW 333s?

3. what aircraft tail number of subtype (PMNW or original DL build 333s) will DL use on ATL-GRU and ATL-GIG

and

4. what is the MTOW those aircraft have or will have?

They can't. Again, AFAIK both the 332 and 333 fleet have the highest possible MTOW for those aircraft. They can not go to 242T. 
 
238T for 332 and 235T for the 333 is the highest they can go. Engines have nothing to do with it, FWIW. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

the 332s had the same MTOWs as the 333s previously. They have been increased and match what you state is possible. that increase amounts to 30 minutes or more of flight time which matters a lot on DTW-PEK and SEA-HKG.

yes, I know that the new build 333s are not being scheduled separately and may or may not be.

My point remains that DL has not brought the 330 to GRU because of a combination of runway performance, MTOW, and runway length altitude at GRU. Every version of the 767, the 777s (LR and ER) and the 744s have all been at GRU. the 330s are the only DL widebodies that I know of that have not. 330s have been used to other destinations in S. America.

If you are right that the 330 is fully capable of operating to GRU, then DL either changed something or was very intentionally in flying 330s over Brazil but not landing them there.

 

[topDawg]

the 332s had the same MTOWs as the 333s previously. They have been increased and match what you state is possible. that increase amounts to 30 minutes or more of flight time which matters a lot on DTW-PEK and SEA-HKG.

simply not possible. 235T is not an option on the A330-223.

 

My point remains that DL has not brought the 330 to GRU because of a combination of runway performance, MTOW, and runway length altitude at GRU. Every version of the 767, the 777s (LR and ER) and the 744s have all been at GRU. the 330s are the only DL widebodies that I know of that have not. 330s have been used to other destinations in S. America.

If you are right that the 330 is fully capable of operating to GRU, then DL either changed something or was very intentionally in flying 330s over Brazil but not landing them there.

your point is simply wrong. 
 
As i said, Delta isn't flying the 747 on ATL-BHM. Does that mean the 747 can't do it? no. 
 
As i have told you before Delta has tried a few times to fly larger airplanes into GRU but, at the time, they couldn't get the slots to do so. The 767 does not share the same FAA size group as the A330 so it wasn't as simple as just flying a A330 into GRU. 
Then capacity was added in other ways and Delta stopped requesting bigger slots. (example, the starting of DTW-GRU)

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are correct about size categories at GRU and the 2nd flight. The 772 and 330 are in the same group.

I have also stated that DL has wanted a 300 seater for some time at GRU.

and Airbus said they would offer higher MTOW versions of the 330 for retrofit whether that is available now or in the future.

the 332s have a higher MTOW than they did at the time of the merger.

let me know what aircraft and MTOW DL uses on ATL-GRU when it starts.

 

[topDawg]

you are correct about size categories at GRU and the 2nd flight. The 772 and 330 are in the same group.

I have also stated that DL has wanted a 300 seater for some time at GRU.

and Airbus said they would offer higher MTOW versions of the 330 for retrofit whether that is available now or in the future.

the 332s have a higher MTOW than they did at the time of the merger.

let me know what aircraft and MTOW DL uses on ATL-GRU when it starts.

no they haven't. Airbus has made it very clear that 238T is the highest the 333 can go unless it is built as a 242T aircraft. 
 
Again, it is not a simple paper change.