DL may order Airbus and Boeing jets

[Kev3188]

For me, Airbus is not safe....worse/scariest flight I ever had was on a A320. Turbulence was so
bad it kicked off the Auto Pilot. Pilots admitted they had trouble regaining control. A/C was taken out
of service. NOT A FAN :-(

Yikes.

Better question is; why didn't they go around the turbulence?

BTW I would rather load a 757 by myself, than to have to work a 319/320/321.

With trays? Okay.

Without? I'm calling BS.

And if it is in fact true, then please bid onto my crew, like yesterday. Lol.

 

[traderjake]

If its not Boeing, I'm not going...

BTW I would rather load a 757 by myself, than to have to work a 319/320/321.

Sit in the middle seat of the back row for 5 hours then tell us how much you love the 757.

The 321 is much more comfortable for passengers.

 

[Kev3188]

Does anyone find anything strange about this thread? Especially on a Delta board.....

Yes.

h34r:

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Airbus are not as strong as a Boeing, they are throw away airplanes with a time limited air frame.

You are obviously not a mechanic who has maintained these aircraft.

I have done both line maintenance and heavy maintenance on the 320 (And Boeing family). They are well built aircraft that are easy to troubleshoot. Early in the life of the 320, there were some growing pains, but those were quickly resolved.

I am also a fan of the Boeing family, however, I do not subscribe to the nationalist, protectionist BS. The airline business is not just the USA.

 

[yoyodyne]

Yikes.

Better question is; why didn't they go around the turbulence?



With trays? Okay.

Without? I'm calling BS.

And if it is in fact true, then please bid onto my crew, like yesterday. Lol.

I have worked 757 without the carpet, and also ones with non operational sliding bins (those are a pain since things get stuck on the lips as you try to load it.

Airbii seem like cheap throw away planes, made from recycled used toilet paper...

And YES, the 727 is forever in my heart my favorite plane to load

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm generally okay with any order that doesn't have "CRJ" or "ERJ" as a prefix...

then you should be happy since DL has done and is doing more to replace regional jet capacity with mainline capacity than any other airline in the US that has both types of flying and probably in the world.
In 2012, DL conx capacity was down 5% while mainline domestic was flat. Almost all of the mainline capacity cuts for DL came to/from Europe for pretty obvious reasons.

Does anyone find anything strange about this thread? Especially on a Delta board.....

DL has to replace aircraft just like every airline. The difference is that DL will buy when the price is right is willing to settle for airplanes that others think are no longer viable and figure out how to make the total economics work to DL's advantage.
DL will continue to expand its network, esp. to/from Asia and Latin America, the two regions of the world where demand is growing - something that is not occurring in N. America or Europe.

You are obviously not a mechanic who has maintained these aircraft.

I have done both line maintenance and heavy maintenance on the 320 (And Boeing family). They are well built aircraft that are easy to troubleshoot. Early in the life of the 320, there were some growing pains, but those were quickly resolved.

I am also a fan of the Boeing family, however, I do not subscribe to the nationalist, protectionist BS. The airline business is not just the USA.

...which goes to show the balanced global perspective you have.
DL may not have ordered an Airbus aircraft on its own for 20 years but anyone who thinks that DL will always order from CHI/SEA are mistaken.

 

[Kev3188]

Not a bad pick. Not a fan of the torque link, though.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Airbii seem like cheap throw away planes, made from recycled used toilet paper...

loading aside, the latest versions of the 330 with the raised takeoff weight are now firmly into 777 territory in terms of range and passenger capabilities. Given that the 330 has sold a 1000 copies plus, Airbus should have no problem discounting it in order to win key clients such as DL may be for even a "top up" order to replace early build 767ERs and add more transpac capacity.
While the 777 has also sold plenty of copies, the 773ER is selling like hotcakes and Boeing has little incentive to offer discounts for DL other than to keep from seeing new Airbus aircraft in DL's fleet.
There also a number of reasonably high quality used aircraft on the market - some of which are held by A and B - and that number will only grow as 787 deliveries ramp up which is exactly why DL is looking for a deal now.

DL is also still looking for deals to get rid of its CRJ fleet at the best economics. This is a complex deal that involves many moving parts.

 

[robbedagain]

i wonder if dl will order the 787 if i remember nwa had some on order but not sure what happen to that after their merger with dl and if they do order i wonder if dl will get a huge discount

 

[BABABOOY]

Yikes.

Better question is; why didn't they go around the turbulence?

Clear air, no warning :-(

 

[WorldTraveler]

i wonder if dl will order the 787 if i remember nwa had some on order but not sure what happen to that after their merger with dl and if they do order i wonder if dl will get a huge discount

DL has the 787 on order courtesy of NW. Anderson was on some news program this week saying that he ordered the 787 without mentioning that he ordered them while at NW. As part of the renegotiation of the 787 contract a couple years ago, DL gained the right to substitute other Boeing aircraft while also pushing back its 787 orders to around 2020.
DL also said that the cost of the 787-8 is not justified given the high acquisition cost which is part of why they moved forward w/ the 767-300ER cabin refurbs and winglet programs.
DL would like the 777-300ER but given how hot-selling it is, Boeing has little incentive to discount it. The 777LR is not selling near as well nor is the 747-800 and 747-400 values are falling rapidly. DL could obtain used aircraft as a bridge and then order a few years after the "hype" of the 787/350 order boom wears off. There will likely be a lot of 777-200ERs come on the used market in the next few years as well. Boeing and Airbus have to weigh getting DL into something new or watching them pick up lower priced used aircraft.

Clear air, no warning :-(

which can happen in any aircraft.
FWIW, NW was recognized as having one of the best meteorology departments in the industry and that is precisely one of those things that DL gained in the merger.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Yikes.

Better question is; why didn't they go around the turbulence?



With trays? Okay.

Without? I'm calling BS.

And if it is in fact true, then please bid onto my crew, like yesterday. Lol.

I remember when I worked maint at the old F-1, F-3, F-5 gates at DTW. 757's going to vacation and cruise destinations all day evey day. It was the lowest seniority ramp bid at the hub. Young guys were beaten down by those flights.

 

[topDawg]

You are obviously not a mechanic who has maintained these aircraft.

I have done both line maintenance and heavy maintenance on the 320 (And Boeing family). They are well built aircraft that are easy to troubleshoot. Early in the life of the 320, there were some growing pains, but those were quickly resolved.

I am also a fan of the Boeing family, however, I do not subscribe to the nationalist, protectionist BS. The airline business is not just the USA.

hmm everything i have seen on the airbus(and its more heard because I don't recall every really working on one. They tend to stay away from me thankfully) is they generally are more costly to operate (ie high part prices) and they have lower tolerances. (say a Boeing or Douglas part can has 10% ground off of it the airbus may be 0-2%

but i think the point that was trying to be made, A320s cycle out much more quickly then the 737 or MD80/MD90. (or 757) this is why the bulk of the A320 fleet is going to be parked when the new 737s come.

 

[topDawg]

loading aside, the latest versions of the 330 with the raised takeoff weight are now firmly into 777 territory in terms of range and passenger capabilities. Given that the 330 has sold a 1000 copies plus, Airbus should have no problem discounting it in order to win key clients such as DL may be for even a "top up" order to replace early build 767ERs and add more transpac capacity.
While the 777 has also sold plenty of copies, the 773ER is selling like hotcakes and Boeing has little incentive to offer discounts for DL other than to keep from seeing new Airbus aircraft in DL's fleet.
There also a number of reasonably high quality used aircraft on the market - some of which are held by A and B - and that number will only grow as 787 deliveries ramp up which is exactly why DL is looking for a deal now.

DL is also still looking for deals to get rid of its CRJ fleet at the best economics. This is a complex deal that involves many moving parts.

Ok few issues. The 332 is still not even close to the 772ER,(i mean, come on. it could even do SLC-NRT without leaving PAXs and cargo.....the 232ER could do this like it was nothing) much less the LR. It is a better plane, but about the only useful TPAC route for it from DL would be SEA-HKG(and even then, I don't think the 242t plane could take a full load)
But the two bigger issues with this is, the current 332s can't be upgraded. This gives Delta a sub fleet which cases a problem for the company. Also, with NW picking the PW4000 for the 330(for whatever stupid reason) it leaves about 4K of power on the table vs the Trent 700 and the CF6. This limits the T/O performance. Again, very unlikely DL would want a subfleet. The 332 isn't going to help DL that much to Asia....the 777can reach almost any point in Asia from any of the four corner hubs.

the 777 is still a better plane range wise. The 332 is going to have lower cost on routes of shorter range.

anyways, the rumor running around here is 30 more 737s(using the current option book) and 15-20 777s. Split between LRs and 300ERs using the current option book, plus enough options to fully replace the 747-400 fleet with 300ERs later on down the road.

 

[topDawg]

DL has the 787 on order courtesy of NW. Anderson was on some news program this week saying that he ordered the 787 without mentioning that he ordered them while at NW. As part of the renegotiation of the 787 contract a couple years ago, DL gained the right to substitute other Boeing aircraft while also pushing back its 787 orders to around 2020.​Anderson didn't order them. He was long gone at that point.
​also not sure where you are getting that they can sub to any Boeing airplane. They can covert to 787-9s but not "any" aircraft.
DL also said that the cost of the 787-8 is not justified given the high acquisition cost which is part of why they moved forward w/ the 767-300ER cabin refurbs and winglet programs. ​No they didn't start taking 787s for two reasons, 1) the first 787s were/are fat. Boeing is slimming them down more and more. 2) the 76ER fleet is very young, the CF6/PW4000 engines are still pretty good on cost, most of the fleet is owned and it fallows the general plan of owning aircraft for 25-30 years. 787s are the future at Delta. For a very large part of the network the 330/777/350/747/380 is just to large. Heck if it wasn't for Brazil Delta couldn't find a place to put all of the 764ER fleet in the winter. The 787-8 is going to be the only plane that can be used on the bulk of the Translantic network.
DL would like the 777-300ER but given how hot-selling it is, Boeing has little incentive to discount it. The 777LR is not selling near as well nor is the 747-800 and 747-400 values are falling rapidly. DL could obtain used aircraft as a bridge and then order a few years after the "hype" of the 787/350 order boom wears off. There will likely be a lot of 777-200ERs come on the used market in the next few years as well. Boeing and Airbus have to weigh getting DL into something new or watching them pick up lower priced used aircraft.
​huh? come on WT. The 737NG is the best selling airplane right now and Delta just got 100+30 for 51% off Delta will have no problem getting a great price on the 777. they have options so that they can basically start taking them when ever they want.
which can happen in any aircraft.
FWIW, NW was recognized as having one of the best meteorology departments in the industry and that is precisely one of those things that DL gained in the merger. ​FWIW part two, Delta and NW were, IIRC, the only airlines to have an in-house meteorology dept.