DL cuts Caracas to 1X weekly

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

perhaps you can tell us what danger there has been to foreign interests in Venezuela.

and if it is hostile, why is AA risking ANYTHING to continue to serve the country?

APA and APFA don't have the backbone to say "we aren't going there - layover or not?"


give it a rest...

 
Get a clue dude:
 
http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/venezuela-travel-warning.html

The Department of State has issued this Travel Warning to inform U.S. citizens about the security situation in Venezuela. 

Violent crime in Venezuela is pervasive, both in the capital, Caracas, and in the interior.  According to the non-governmental organization Venezuelan Violence Observatory (VVO), there were 24,763 homicides in Venezuela in 2013, amounting to a rate of 79 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants, among the highest in the world.  In Caracas, the homicide rate is even higher at 134 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants.
 
Kidnappings are also a serious concern throughout the country.  In 2013, 625 kidnappings were reported to the authorities.  It is
estimated that roughly 80 percent of kidnappings go unreported; the actual number of kidnappings in 2013 is likely much higher.  Common criminals are increasingly involved in kidnappings, either dealing with victims’ families directly or selling the victims to terrorist groups.  In addition, there is cross-border violence, kidnappings, drug trafficking, and smuggling along Venezuela’s western border.
 
The Department of State considers the criminal threat to U.S. government personnel in Venezuela sufficiently serious to require them to live and work under strict security restrictions.
 
In addition, all U.S. direct-hire personnel and their family members who are assigned to U.S. Embassy Caracas are required to take an armored vehicle when traveling to and from the Maiquetia Airport.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, they also have one in effect for Brazil too.

yet thousands of US citizens came for the World Cup and were carried by US airlines who overnight their crews here.



if you think the security situation is serious enough, then send a letter to DL and tell them they should not leave their personnel in Venezuela.

I don't make the decisions.

and at the same time explain to me why any other airline should even serve the country at all.

 

[eolesen]

yes, they also have one in effect for Brazil too.

Uh, no, they don't:

All country pages on the DOS website list the threat assessments, but to get an actual travel advisory like Venezuela's means there's an above average risk to travelers.

 

[Kev3188]

Yeah, well, DL doesn't have a flight attendant union to answer to, and pilots never admit there's danger until they say "oh, shi+.".

+1

Anecdotally, I've also heard from F/A friends that pilots often will get briefed on situations, but no the F/A's. Whether or not that's widespread or not, I can't say.

IIRC, wasn't DL last airline to announce a contingency plan for employee evacuations during Fukushima?...

I'm pretty sure that's correct...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I can forward notices from the Dept. of State... whether at the same level or not, the State Dept. has advisories and warnings in multiple countries to which US airlines fly.

But again, don't argue with me. I don't make the decisions. If you feel that the security of DL crews is at risk, call DL or advise the State Dept. or the FAA.

and tell me how many employees of ANY US airline have had any indications that their health was in danger because of the Japan nuclear meltdown?

has the Japanese gov't even confirmed harm to citizens outside of the nuclear reactor's borders let alone at NRT airport or the crew hotels or DL facilities?

how many DL employees have EVER been harmed because of hostile actions in another country?

 

[FWAAA]

Uh, no, they don't:

You mean to say that WT is still MSU (Making **** Up)?    He does that too frequently, if you ask me.   

 

[WorldTraveler]

Anecdotally, I've also heard from F/A friends that pilots often will get briefed on situations, but no the F/A's. Whether or not that's widespread or not, I can't say.

check w/ the next DL FA crew you come across and see if the Capt. is not responsible for the entire crew. And verify if it is his/her job to let the FAs know of any security issues about which they need to know. maybe I am wrong... maybe not.

perhaps potential stampedes at the Mall of America are left off of the security briefing but you might want to head to an ACTUAL DL int'l flight to participate in the onboard briefing before you suggest that DL FAs don't (or even might not) get security briefings - if they will let you participate.


while you're at it, let us know how what DL does is different from other airlines and where a union ever negotiated a different security procedure than the company has established.

thanks much.

 

[Kev3188]

I'll get right on that.

In the interim ask around about "fear of flying" language in many CBA's...

Meanwhile, the metastasis continues...

 

[WorldTraveler]

you made a suggestion. If you didn't want to be challenged on it, then don't make it.

or pick up the phone and find out from an ACTUAL DL FA about their security procedures (if they are willing to tell you so you can post it on the internet) before making the suggestion.

again, if you want a board that discusses significant issues like security in CCS, then be prepared to discuss them.

you are a smart guy but if you want to call a discussion about security issues which others and you raised, then you should be prepared to engage the conversation.

your response regarding the aircraft type and schedule stood for hours unchallenged until a few people wanted to turn the discussion into a personal whipping contest... before that what was said was all yours and was unchallenged because it was accurate and without debate.

be sure you insert the chemotherapy IVs into the right (correct) arm of the right patient, doctor.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I can forward notices from the Dept. of State... whether at the same level or not, the State Dept. has advisories and warnings in multiple countries to which US airlines fly.

 
And here we play the classic qualifier/disclaimer card when caught making things up.
So predictable!
 
 

again, if you want a board that discusses significant issues like security in CCS, then be prepared to discuss them.

you are a smart guy but if you want to call a discussion about security issues which others and you raised, then you should be prepared to engage the conversation.

your response regarding the aircraft type and schedule stood for hours unchallenged until a few people wanted to turn the discussion into a personal whipping contest... before that what was said was all yours and was unchallenged because it was accurate and without debate.

 
Personally, I don't think you're mature enough to handle a serious discussion about an issue like security in CCS.  Just my $0.02.
 
Also, this is not a whipping contest.  You volunteer to be 'whipped' when even though you are flat out wrong, refuse to admit a mistake and continue to spin.
 
Spin away!

 

[Kev3188]

or pick up the phone and find out from an ACTUAL DL FA about their security procedures (if they are willing to tell you so you can post it on the internet) before making the suggestion.

Pretty sure I did that in the very post you quoted.

I even went so far as to note that it may be experiential and that it wasn't necessarily a declarative statement.

Have a good time with the whole "board domination" thing- I'm not interested in feeding your addiction.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, Frugal, I am happy to admit that Brazil does not have a current security warning in effect.

I also don't mind saying that Brazil probably has not had a security notice on the same level as what exists in Venezuela.

There have, however, been multiple security notices provided by the US Embassy in Brasilia.

this is not the most recent but is one within the past six months.

United States Embassy Brasilia, Brazil

Security Message for U.S. Citizens: Demonstrations

brazil.usembassy.gov

February 11, 2014


The U.S. Embassy in Brasilia alerts U.S. Citizens in Brasilia that the Landless Movement has been granted the right to demonstrate tomorrow, February 12, 2014, on the Esplanada dos Ministerios beginning at 2:00 p.m. It is reported that up to 16,000 people will participate. Police and security forces have historically allowed peaceful protests and urged protestors to act accordingly. However, some demonstrations in Brazil in recent months have resulted in violent clashes .

U.S. citizens should avoid protests and areas where large gatherings may occur. Even demonstrations or events intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and possibly escalate into violence. U.S. citizens in Brazil are urged to monitor local news reports and to plan their activities accordingly.

If you require assistance, please contact the nearest Embassy using the contact information below:

U.S. Embassy Brasilia
SES - Av. das Nações, Quadra 801, Lote 03
70403-900 - Brasília, DF

and again, if you or someone else believes DL is putting its CCS layover crews at risk, why are you not advising them or the State dept?

further, if there is a current security warning in effect, has AA had any crews lay over in CCS since the security advisory was issued?

The current State Dept. travel warning was issued on June 4, 2014; did AA have any crews lay over after that date?

If the security warning is in effect now, do you think the issue becomes a non-event just because AA operates multiple flights/day from MIA now vs. the 8/week it will operate in the future because they can't get money out of Venezuela?



Kev,
I am not interested in dominating anything. I am interested in having a discussion.

was your reference to DL FAs? you didn't indicate that.

you did indeed say "anecdotally" but does that mean it is representative of anything? yet you affirmed that DL FAs don't have a union- so what is the connection?

and again my question is regarding what ESTABLISHED procedure is and how it compares to other carriers and what involvement unions have had in changing those procedures.

if this FA believed she was not provided information which she might have thought she should have been provided (she being SOLELY the generic in this case), was there any discussion about whether the situation was escalated and, if so, what type of response was received?

 

[eolesen]

Wow, that peaceful protest warning you posted sure does sound like a serious threat...

It's almost as bad as kidnapping, violent crime, carjacking, and the need for consular personnel to take armored transport to/from the airport.

Oh, snap!

 

[WorldTraveler]

this thread is about CCS; plz respond to the topic about it.

The travel warning was issued on June 4, 2014. AA reduced its schedule to CCS effectively July 2014.
http://airlineroute.net/2014/06/18/aa-ccsmar-jul14/


So did AA not care about the security of its crews from June 4 until July 1?

or was the issue that caused the reduction in AA's schedule related to their inability to get money out of Venezuela, in which case the timing of the flight is not significant?

And if it was ok for AA to lay over crews in CCS from June 4 until July 1, what has changed that now makes it unsafe for DL to do the same?

oh, snap!

or did someone get caught making up stuff which can't be substantiated by the evidence?

 

[robbedagain]

just how much longer til CCS starts feeling the pinch   given that DL is reducing service to 1x a week AA is significantly reducing and AC has pulled out   Its gotta start hurting the airport and surround area sooner rather than later