DL Buys 15 Additional A321s

[700UW]

http://www.ajc.com/news/business/delta-buys-more-airbus-jets/ngBz7/
 
This order will start being delivered in 2018.

 

[FWAAA]

Some news outlets are saying that these 15 are the current engine option, not the neo, and thus DL probably got them for a steal.   Obviously, those news outlets might be wrong - I thought that by 2018, the neo would be the only models produced.   

 

[WorldTraveler]

and it is possible that Airbus is trying to fill its production lines up until the last model is delivered.

Considering that the 321ceo has a CASM that beats the 753 which is the lowest CASM aircraft in DL's fleet and the 321 has 190 seats which fits between the 739 and reconfigured 757-200 domestic, the 321 is undoubtedly a great aircraft even with the current engines and esp. if it comes at very low prices.

now to see if Airbus is as committed to selling A330s at the same type of discount. With the highest max takeoff weight, the 332 is a 15 hour plane but also could be a very cheap replacement to much of DL's 763ER fleet

 

[700UW]

They are going to be some of the last CEOS made.

 

[yoyodyne]

And regardless of the model, still POS's

 

[robbedagain]

actually yoyo I recently flew on a DL 319 and for a POS plane (your opin)  it was not too bad.   If I may ask  how come u hate the airbus so much?

 

[yoyodyne]

actually yoyo I recently flew on a DL 319 and for a POS plane (your opin)  it was not too bad.   If I may ask  how come u hate the airbus so much?

 
Robbed,
 
I had the great pleasure of working some real POS's (since it was only one RON, we got lucky and got the contract) A320's that belonged to a certain airline.  A/C 621, if I remember correctly, could carry fuel, bags and passengers, but not all 3 at the same time.  The original airline wanted bags and fuel, but we would almost always send pax and fuel.  One thanksgiving we sent it with only one bag.  Another thing that miffs me about the Airbii narrow bodies, is the crappy 2" line around the bin, the annoying whine of the hydraulics when operating the cargo doors, and having to put up netting every row of bags you stack (I know, its more like 4 feet, but still, it gets old.  But most of all, I dislike the fact that if the pilot feels like he needs the plane to do a barrel roll, let him do a barrel roll.  If I recall correctly, Airbii limit throttle and flight surface response (with their MS Flight simulator joystik) to a preset parameter that won't inconvenience the passengers.  I would like to think that if the pilot needs to go vertical for whatever reason, he should be able to go vertical, as seen in this video...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRiCHgQnf9s
 
That, and they just have a cheap feel to them.

 

[737823]

Yoyo, didn't DL have A310s in the early-mid 1990s that were quickly retired as they were prone to MX?
 
Josh

 

[yoyodyne]

Yoyo, didn't DL have A310s in the early-mid 1990s that were quickly retired as they were prone to MX?
 
Josh

 
Yup, they used to belong to Pan-Am.  
 
Another nightmare plane for me was the MD-11.  What a nightmare that thing was.  If it could tip, it would.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Josh,
I'll take that question.

the 310s that came from Pan Am were in horrible shape because of a lack of maintenance and properly cleaning - like cleaning up after spilled seafood shipments etc.

They also had performance issues flying anything more than JFK to the UK and Ireland.

Airbus said those aircraft were not representative of what the 310 could do so sold DL more 310s on walk away leases.

Those aircraft still had performance issues. Because DL was also flying the 763ER, which could carry more passengers and fly 2000 more miles, it didn't take too long before DL decided it wasn't worth trying to make those 310s work.

Airbus was perceived at DL poorly. They tried to sell the 332 to DL as replacements for the L1011s, but the 764 won out mostly because it was a lighter aircraft which was important given that the 764s were acquired as domestic aircraft.

It wasn't until the merger that the 330s came into the fleet. Even though several DL execs had experience with Airbus aircraft at NW, there are few original DL people who would not recognize that the Airbii of today are very competitive aircraft with what Boeing produces.

As for performance of the 320s as Yoyo notes, any aircraft has limits and if an airline is using them beyond their design capabilities, it isn't a surprise that they will not do well.

Personally, I far prefer the 320 family aircraft on domestic routes given their wider seats. Slimline seats and new lav and galley designs have helped squeeze more seats into the 737 but it does not come close to offering the level of personal space for crew or passengers that the 757 offers. While we have yet to see how comfortable the 321s will be for DL, the mere fact that it is a wider cabin should provide more space all other things equal.

 

[737823]

Interesting.  Funny AA, CO, and DL all signed gentleman's agreements with Boeing in the late 1990s and have now all merged and also acquired new Airbus aircraft.  Aviation is a global industry.
 
Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

the Justice Dept, IIRC, ruled those exclusivity agreements were illegal.

and there is no airline that is beholden to one supplier or another. Given US' mgmts. propensity to buy Airbus and DL's dislike for Boeing's relationship with the Export Import Bank plus NW's relationship with Airbus, Boeing is in perhaps the most disadvantaged position it has ever been in the US.

 

[737823]

Josh,
I'll take that question.

the 310s that came from Pan Am were in horrible shape because of a lack of maintenance and properly cleaning - like cleaning up after spilled seafood shipments etc.

They also had performance issues flying anything more than JFK to the UK and Ireland.

Airbus said those aircraft were not representative of what the 310 could do so sold DL more 310s on walk away leases.

Those aircraft still had performance issues. Because DL was also flying the 763ER, which could carry more passengers and fly 2000 more miles, it didn't take too long before DL decided it wasn't worth trying to make those 310s work.

Airbus was perceived at DL poorly. They tried to sell the 332 to DL as replacements for the L1011s, but the 764 won out mostly because it was a lighter aircraft which was important given that the 764s were acquired as domestic aircraft.

It wasn't until the merger that the 330s came into the fleet. Even though several DL execs had experience with Airbus aircraft at NW, there are few original DL people who would not recognize that the Airbii of today are very competitive aircraft with what Boeing produces.

As for performance of the 320s as Yoyo notes, any aircraft has limits and if an airline is using them beyond their design capabilities, it isn't a surprise that they will not do well.

Personally, I far prefer the 320 family aircraft on domestic routes given their wider seats. Slimline seats and new lav and galley designs have helped squeeze more seats into the 737 but it does not come close to offering the level of personal space for crew or passengers that the 757 offers. While we have yet to see how comfortable the 321s will be for DL, the mere fact that it is a wider cabin should provide more space all other things equal.

 
Thanks yeah I remember the 764s flying extensively domestically, largely replaced the L-1011 routes from ATL down to Florida.  I know many are unpleased with the new 739ERs but I actually quite like them and flown both FC and Y.  Certainly compared to the awful slimline Recaro seats AS is installing on their 739ERs the DL seats are much better.
 
Josh

 

[robbedagain]

yoyo  come to think of it...  the EMB family aircraft from the 170 to the 190s are far worse than the A-319s-21s   the 2 inch thing is a PIA on the EMB planes  but the Airbus are a ok for us at US

 

[WorldTraveler]

Josh,
the cabin of any aircraft can be configured the way any operator wants it to be within the range of products that are available or that they can get certified.

The 739 is no different than other Boeing products other than in the galley and lav areas and for boarding.

Having 3 lavs for 160 passengers at one end of a plane with miniature sized galleys is the problem after boarding thru the front door where the same number of passengers board thru the #2 door and have lavs forward and aft of the coach cabin on the 757.

The Boeing Sky interior is nice but other carriers have had them for years so it isn't anything that doesn't otherwise exist. The extra overhead bin space only matters if it is well used. If those boarding assistants can help passengers maximize bin space and minimize the number of times that DL gate agents stop the boarding process to tag rollerboards, then they are worth their weight in gold. I get the whole idea of ensuring overhead bins are not stuffed so full that bags have to be hauled back up the aisle during boarding, but there seems to be a swing in the opposite direction in not allowing rollerboards on long before the overhead bins are even close to full and then having the aircraft go out with tons of space in the overhead bins.