Airtran and Southwest Mechanic Seniority Bridging.

[787nightmare]

I've forever argued that it's utter nonsense for a seasoned mechanic to start at the bottom of the payscale as a newhire.
The carriers WANT/PREFER experience, make them compensate the man for it. It's straight up BS and the carriers have gotten away with it for as long as I can remember. This problem needs to be dealt with desperately.
At a minimum, make it a 2-3 yr(max)progression. This BS of 5-7 and (gasp!)10 TEN year progression!? You kiddin me?!

 

[Mecha]

Because as you said SWA will continue to grow, there will be no major adverse affect to you. No doubt that the AirTran guys hit the Jackpot, but the thing is you want the merger to become history, you dont want to set divisions that will be a cause of strife long after Air Tran is forgotten by everyone else. Skip the station seniority, its a bad idea, you want to have portability and options and dont want to put yourself in a position where you are locked into one location. You want to be able to move around the system without penalty. Seniority can be a good thing but it has its down side as well, I personally feel that the best thing for the profession would be to have a master seniority date for the whole industry, then employers would have to compete to keep the experience, instead our individual seniority systems put us all in a race to the bottom .

Master seniority list? No way. You do have some good points but more negative would come out of it. Only in a perfect world where all companies make tons of money and everyone has a top paying job. I do know place for you with a similar idea. Join the military and you can keep your seniority regardless of what job you have.

-new or smaller company can't afford to pay top industry rates. (airtran)

-only works for certain types of jobs. Such as pipe fitters or electricians. They basicly don't have a seniority list. You are either a trainee or qualified. Trainee pay and then top out pay.
There is a call out list for work and I think it goes first come first serve or random for work.



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[Mecha]

No way they should go with date of hire. SWA has better pay and benefit package by a long shot. That's why several people over the years have dropped 20 years of seniority at other airlines to start at SWA at new hire pay and no seniority. I have applied with several airlines over the last five years and by far SWA is the hardest one to get in the door with. Some people go in as rampers and then apply for mechanic positions.
If the company I work for was bought out, I would understand that yes, it does suck. I took a chance and this is not a position I want to be in. It can happen to anyone. The Mohawk merger is protect the laborers from this scenario. Protect you from corporations merging with the "incentive" of cheaper labor and benefits. So " I " would be very happy to keep my job and estatic to recieve a raise too. I would not be greedy and try "cut in line". Most jobs outside of airlines don't have these merger policies.

 

[Bob Owens]

Master seniority list? No way. You do have some good points but more negative would come out of it. Only in a perfect world where all companies make tons of money and everyone has a top paying job. I do know place for you with a similar idea. Join the military and you can keep your seniority regardless of what job you have.

-new or smaller company can't afford to pay top industry rates. (airtran)

Delta, United and American Airlines employee more than half of all Airline workers. More than the next 12 biggest airlines combined. Those 3 are the biggest airlines out there. They all pay less than AirTran.
The Top payers are UPS, Fed Ex, SWA and Air Tran (Jet Blue in high cost areas.

Its funny, because the big airlines tell their mechanics, sometimes even the unions at the big guys say, "they can afford to pay them that because they dont have that many mechanics"!!!

-only works for certain types of jobs. Such as pipe fitters or electricians. They basicly don't have a seniority list. You are either a trainee or qualified. Trainee pay and then top out pay.

In other words only "skilled workers" should have master seniority lists?

 

[Bob Owens]

No way they should go with date of hire. SWA has better pay and benefit package by a long shot. That's why several people over the years have dropped 20 years of seniority at other airlines to start at SWA at new hire pay and no seniority. I have applied with several airlines over the last five years and by far SWA is the hardest one to get in the door with. Some people go in as rampers and then apply for mechanic positions.
If the company I work for was bought out, I would understand that yes, it does suck. I took a chance and this is not a position I want to be in. It can happen to anyone. The Mohawk merger is protect the laborers from this scenario. Protect you from corporations merging with the "incentive" of cheaper labor and benefits. So " I " would be very happy to keep my job and estatic to recieve a raise too. I would not be greedy and try "cut in line". Most jobs outside of airlines don't have these merger policies.

I have to admit I agree that the Airtran guys hit the jackpot and if SWA started hiring in ISP I would definately put in an application and be willing walk away from 25 years at my current employer if they called, but in order to have less problems down the road and being that few of the stations overlap and AirTran is a young airline, dovetailing would be less problematic over the long term. The alternaitve could be arbitartion and they could end up with a decision like "Kasher" over at AA. What a disaster.

 

[Mecha]

You do Bring up good points. The idea of a "master EXPERIENCE" list would work. The whole seniority part though...that only would benefit the senior guys. The idea of going from company to company and getting weekends off first day you step in the door with a company is one sided. That being in a industry with 24/7 work schedule.
You apply for a job with the company not the union. Some companies are More competitive for positions then others.

So here is a scenario.... Say a guy has 10 yr with SWA and a new hire with 20 yr experience should be able to outbid him for days off and vacation?

 

[Mecha]

In other words only "skilled workers" should have master seniority lists?

Not what I meant. The work environment is way different then ours. Pipefitters work in outages and tend to travel to where ever there is work. Some just wait a few months tell the next cycle of work comes around. Seniority does not have all the privelages like in airlines. Part of the reason is the usually work normal hours. Monday through Friday during the day. Everyone is equal pay as long as same position and fully qualified.

 

[swamt]

I have to admit I agree that the Airtran guys hit the jackpot and if SWA started hiring in ISP I would definately put in an application and be willing walk away from 25 years at my current employer if they called, but in order to have less problems down the road and being that few of the stations overlap and AirTran is a young airline, dovetailing would be less problematic over the long term. The alternaitve could be arbitartion and they could end up with a decision like "Kasher" over at AA. What a disaster.

We would be more than willing to go to arbritration. I am speaking between the merger of SWA and AT. But let me ask you this Bob, why in the world are the teamsters being so "teamsters" and not willing to talk? OR not willing to talk to their members? It's freakin rediculous how they are not talking to the employees at AT. Is it B/C they know they are going to lose all the members at AT over to AMFA at SWA after the merger? Keep in mind how much the teamsters love us over here at SWA. lol

 

[Bob Owens]

We would be more than willing to go to arbritration. I am speaking between the merger of SWA and AT. But let me ask you this Bob, why in the world are the teamsters being so "teamsters" and not willing to talk? OR not willing to talk to their members? It's freakin rediculous how they are not talking to the employees at AT. Is it B/C they know they are going to lose all the members at AT over to AMFA at SWA after the merger? Keep in mind how much the teamsters love us over here at SWA. lol

I cant really respond to what the IBT is or isnt doing over at AT but I can say this, there is an unhealthy intense hatred for AMFA within the AFL-CIO, not a rivalry, I'm talking hatred, with the exception of the UAW. They nearly foam at the mouth when AMFA is mentioned. The IBT is kind of half in half out of the AFL-CIO but they appear to hate AMFA more than they hate management. Time and time again I hear AFL-CIO unions bash AMFA at SWA for putting in language that allows heavy checks to go to El Salvador while ignoring the fact that the IBT allows UAL to do heavy checks in China and the IAM allows heavy checks to be done in El Salavador by the same vendor SWA uses.They also ignore the fact that SWA never had the faciliteis to do this work and always shipped it out while Unionized Americans were made jobless in order for UAL and USAIR to ship their work out. UAL and USAIR still have thousands of laid off mechanics on the street while Southwest as ZERO. Somehow all the ills at UAL are AMFAs fault despite the fact that the only contract they ever were involved with was a BK court imposed deal, most of the concessions had already been put in place before AMFA got there. Sometimes I bring this up but I've been thrown out once already for such talk, if I'm going to get thrown out again I'd rather it be for something with a little more at stake than the obvious truth. Even your Independant pilots union turned on you guys for getting what they have in an effort to suck up to the bigger unions.

Some of this hatred towards AMFA is perhaps due to some of the elistists who tried to use a strategy of bashing the baggage handlers as a means towards getting mechanics to sign cards but I think most of it comes from what AMFA did in 2000 at NWA. They secured a contract that all the other unions said wasnt possible, and as a result everbody else had to try and match AMFA/NWA. We all benifited from what they accomplished. The Unions helped the company bust AMFA over at NWA, all the other unions convinced their members to give concessions. AMFA said NO, made them all look bad, so they helped the company crush them, then the company rewared those unions by selling themselves to a non-union company, Delta and now they face the boot. Will the unions ever learn what they preach to their members? Side with the devil and you are going to get burnt. Solidarity works, if you dare to try it.

Todays Unions are like the Catholic Church in Ireland during the famine, the priests didnt go hungry so they saw no need to rebel. Look at the LM-2s and try and find an Airline International President who makes less than he did in 2002, then look at their members and try and find one that doesnt.

 

[wnbubbleboy]

We would be more than willing to go to arbritration. I am speaking between the merger of SWA and AT. But let me ask you this Bob, why in the world are the teamsters being so "teamsters" and not willing to talk? OR not willing to talk to their members? It's freakin rediculous how they are not talking to the employees at AT. Is it B/C they know they are going to lose all the members at AT over to AMFA at SWA after the merger? Keep in mind how much the teamsters love us over here at SWA. lol

AMT the reason why the Teamsters probably won't talk is they don't recognize your Union. Not my words either. AFL-CIO thing from what I hear. BTW I am a Teamster in good standing, and they love me, I pay them 70 bucks a month for the pleasure of their representation. There are 169 others here in WN Stores that are doing the same thing. Been with out a contact since 2008 and we are still in negotiations. So right now feeling a lot of love for both sides...not.