Delta's upcoming order for wide-bodies

[WorldTraveler]

since DL isn't using 767s from JFK to Asia, it is no more of a point than to say that it can't fly to HKG form the mainland because DL isn't proposing that usage either.

I get your need to see heavy metal flying the Pacific = just like what AA and UA do.

DL's 5th floor types don't care if other carriers fly heavier aircraft than DL.

DL's philosophy has always been to use smaller, lighter aircraft to the extent of the smaller aircraft's limitations.

DL will order 787s or 350s alongside used older generation aircraft and they will fly the Pacific alongside 330s.... that is just reality as much as you want to think otherwise.

the 330 is and will be used as a TPAC aircraft either in the current low weight 332 and 333 versions and the higher weight 333s. DL knows the capabilities of each type and will use each where it makes sense.

The 333 will be a key aircraft DL will use to change the economics of the NRT operation; I believe DL quoted a statistic such that the 333 will reduce costs by $100 million per year compared to the 744.

 

[topDawg]

since DL isn't using 767s from JFK to Asia, it is no more of a point than to say that it can't fly to HKG form the mainland because DL isn't proposing that usage either.

I get your need to see heavy metal flying the Pacific = just like what AA and UA do.

DL's 5th floor types don't care if other carriers fly heavier aircraft than DL.

DL's philosophy has always been to use smaller, lighter aircraft to the extent of the smaller aircraft's limitations.

DL will order 787s or 350s alongside used older generation aircraft and they will fly the Pacific alongside 330s.... that is just reality as much as you want to think otherwise.

the 330 is and will be used as a TPAC aircraft either in the current low weight 332 and 333 versions and the higher weight 333s. DL knows the capabilities of each type and will use each where it makes sense.

The 333 will be a key aircraft DL will use to change the economics of the NRT operation; I believe DL quoted a statistic such that the 333 will reduce costs by $100 million per year compared to the 744.

I don't have a need.....I could honestly care less. 
 
The pissing contests are your area not mine. Just don't outsource it or fly loss leaders and I am happy. 767, 330, 777, 744, 380, 787, 350, 757, 717, M11, DC8......could completely care less. 
 
 
all I am point out is the 333 isn't comparable to the 777 in range. Its not what I call a true TPAC airplane because it doesn't have the legs. It can do some limited TPAC flying but it's main roll in the Delta fleet and the world wide fleet with be Europe flying. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, pi78ing contests ARE your area.

if the 333 can do ANY routes, it is a TPAC airplane. the 333 even in its current version flies the Pacific.

the HGW 333s will do even more.

just like swamt will have to get used to seeing 717s at DAL on a regular basis, you will have to get used to seeing 330s including 333s as a major part of DL's TPAC schedule.

777s will be there as well but when there are more than a half dozen 330 flights today - and that is before the HGW 333s have arrived, you can bet the 330 including the 333s will be a major part of DL's TPAC strategy. and that's in addition to the 767.

 

[topDawg]

yes, pi78ing contests ARE your area.

 

just like swamt will have to get used to seeing 717s at DAL on a regular basis, you will have to get used to seeing 330s including 333s as a major part of DL's TPAC schedule.

 
Oh yeah, I'm the one who starts pissing contests. 
 
 
Oh and btw, did you really just "I'm rubber your glue" me? are you 12?

 

[WorldTraveler]

you can call it whatever you want.

I have said and you are welcome to verify in a few years that the 330 and 767 will be key parts of DL's TPAC straetgy

 

[topDawg]

you can call it whatever you want.

I have said and you are welcome to verify in a few years that the 330 and 767 will be key parts of DL's TPAC straetgy

Your drifting again. Don't add in the 332 to push your numbers up. We are talking about the 333. 
 
and the 767 has two routes to Asia now from the mainland? Key part indeed 

 

[WorldTraveler]

you'll see the 333 as a regular aircraft on the Pacific.

the 767 operated several this year until the 332s were moved onto those routes.

It is obvious that DL sees the 767 as a great, low-risk airplane to use to start new routes - of which there will be plenty from SEA - and then other aircraft will take over. the 332 is that aircraft for now but hopefully there will be some 787s not too far down the road that will be the next step.

the 767 for DL and the Pacific will be what the 757 was for CO and the Atlantic.

 

[BABABOOY]

http://leehamnews.com/2014/11/19/airbus-wins-delta-wide-body-order/
 
 
Sad day for Delta and Boeing....
 
25 A339 and 25 A359

 

[WorldTraveler]

wow.

we'll see if they are right when it is finally confirmed.

both of which are considerably bigger than the 767-300ER which has significant implications for DL's network.

 

[topDawg]

http://leehamnews.com/2014/11/19/airbus-wins-delta-wide-body-order/
 
 
Sad day for Delta and Boeing....
 
25 A339 and 25 A359

Boeing couldn't offer the early slots Airbus is going to be able to offer on the 350. I am not really sure exactly what happened, As of about 3 days ago it was a lock for 787-9/350-9 split. Sounds like Airbus is really discounting the 339s and can offer them earlier. 
 
 
No worries, 787 will be in fleet. Just not this go around. 
 
 
Sadly it sounds like Boeing was going to offer a really good deal on more 77Ls. I would have liked to seen that, I just think its a really cool airplane. (Glad to see more Rollers in the fleet however!) 
 

wow.

we'll see if they are right when it is finally confirmed.

both of which are considerably bigger than the 767-300ER which has significant implications for DL's network.

Just remember this for only part of the 763 fleet. This should allow Delta to be able to upgrade 763 flights to the hubs in Europe but still keep enough ERs around for the point to point flying. My bet is you'll see routes like ATL-FRA that is a strong 764 route go to the bus and use the 764 to replace an ER route (maybe year round ATL-EZE for example) I also bet you see the 332/333 CEOs leave the Pacific marketplace completely. (minus maybe beach market flying.) 
 
It will be interesting to see what Delta does with the 787 currently on order. Keep them, defer them, cancel them, move to to other aircraft.... 
 
my bet is a deferral. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

dawg,
I am with you on this.

the 333HGWs are likely temporary on the Pacific but they do allow DL to get the 744s parked.

and I do agree with you on the 763 to 764 upgrades and the 764 to 333neo upgrades.

I sure do hope we see some new generation widebodies from Boeing.... I have to agree that the 77L would have had to be deeply discounted in order for DL to have been interested. I can't help but wonder why Boeing wasn't pushing and DL wasn't interested in deeply discounted 773ERs.

 

[topDawg]

dawg,
I am with you on this.

the 333HGWs are likely temporary on the Pacific but they do allow DL to get the 744s parked.

and I do agree with you on the 763 to 764 upgrades and the 764 to 333neo upgrades.

I sure do hope we see some new generation widebodies from Boeing.... I have to agree that the 77L would have had to be deeply discounted in order for DL to have been interested. I can't help but wonder why Boeing wasn't pushing and DL wasn't interested in deeply discounted 773ERs.

The 333 242ts are the one airplane that may stay on the TPAC runs. 
 
I mean not much use sending it across the Atlantic, waste of range. MSP-NRT, ICN and SEA-NRT seem logical for the small fleet. 
 
 
And the bold part, simple. Anderson has said its to big. The end game goal is for anything bigger than a 772/333 to be outsourced to AF/KL/VA/VS or KE (don't worry, its coming). Boeing went that route the last time (when Delta ordered the growth just kidding no growth 333s) and lost. 
 
Warning for you pilots, here is your carrot again. Don't be 717 stupid and take it. (I say that because you are in negotiations with Delta over the VS JV.....)  
 
 
 
Oh one more note.......Bring me a new test cell please! XWB and T7000 MRO and Delta wins!

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, DL needs to be doing RR engines in-house.

DL's network simply is not going to have 350-400 seat aircraft in it.

that was obvious from the earliest moments of the RFP and DL's restructuring of the Pacific but some wanted to continue to hold onto the idea of big jets.

keep in mind the 50 new Airbii plus the 10 330s replace a very large chunk of the 744 and 763 fleet by number of aircraft... and we still haven't heard about used aircraft which could well be part of the plan.

and there are still some fairly young 763s that will be in the fleet for 10 plus years or more.

 

[737823]

Wonder how long UAs 744s will stick around. I agree they aren't a good for for DL or any US carriers network for that matter. I understand they are maintenance probe and having four engines makes them very expensive to operate it's just a shame DL recently invested in them and put in a very good BE product IMO.

Josh

 

[topDawg]

yes, DL needs to be doing RR engines in-house.

DL's network simply is not going to have 350-400 seat aircraft in it.

that was obvious from the earliest moments of the RFP and DL's restructuring of the Pacific but some wanted to continue to hold onto the idea of big jets.

keep in mind the 50 new Airbii plus the 10 330s replace a very large chunk of the 744 and 763 fleet by number of aircraft... and we still haven't heard about used aircraft which could well be part of the plan.

and there are still some fairly young 763s that will be in the fleet for 10 plus years or more.

not really. 60 763s, 25 339s. 
 
I don't think you'll see the 350s replacing much. 16 744s worth of capacity as well as growth to China is about it for that airplane. 
 
the 339s will probably replace 30 or so 763s. JMO