Delta Doesn't Care About Small Businessmen

[eolesen]

You can call it a grudge if you wish, WT. Frankly, one doesn't normally get a pass for slandering my name this morning and then trying to appear to hold the high ground this afternoon.

On a parting note, you specifically alluded to search engine hits on my name earlier in this thread, and I do find it curious that you have decided to start using my full name and/or combinations of my name wherever possible.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You can call it a grudge if you wish, WT. Frankly, one doesn't normally get a pass for slandering my name this morning and then trying to appear to hold the high ground this afternoon.

On a parting note, you specifically alluded to search engine hits on my name earlier in this thread, and I do find it curious that you have decided to start using my full name and/or combinations of my name wherever possible.

You post your name and your employment history in your blog and you reference that blog in your signature here.... the identify you have chosen to establish is yours. Others, including myself, have not chosen to do so. Respect that. The moderators of this forum recognize that various people on this forum choose to reveal differing amounts of their own identity.
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All you have been asked to do is produce the e-mail that you say corroborates that such a secret policy actually exists.... or better yet you can show the character and maturity that comes from knowing there are 6 billion people on this planet and it doesn't revolve around you, your unsupported claims, or your needs to boost your own self-worth.
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When you learn those lessons we should get along just fine.

 

[Veritas]

Emails from airline representatives.

Delta Air Lines:

Yes, TIV exists at DL.

Yes, Delta still has the trip in vain policy in place. If the cancelation or delay was our fault, we would certainly get you back to origin.
There's a grey area if it is not our fault, but that it would depend on the airport staff. The good ones would just get you back to origin especially if you have medallion status.

​

American Airlines:

We have an internal customer service guidance that directs ATO personnel to pass these situations to Customer Relations for a fairly standardized approach, in which we return ticket value to the customer in some form. Bottom line, we understand the phrase and like to see it the customer’s way to a reasonable degree.

United Airlines:

UA has a trip in vain policy - I believe the fare is refunded with no penalty.

Frontier Airlines:

Frontier has this policy in place.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Well isn't this bizarre? You, Veritas, have been E's primary partner in WT assauilt and haven't contributed a thing to this discussion other than throwing a punch to me and now you come up with the e-mails which E supposedly had but couldn't reveal because of non-disclosure agreements.
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Really?
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Is it possible that Veritas is the anonymous E while eolesen is the one that wants to provide his own consulting business..... ?
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If you aren't the same two people then do you think those airlines can show that they produced two sets of e-mails?... cause if E passed the e-mails along to someone else and they posted them, he still violated his non-disclosure agreement.
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No one told me the kinds of people that REALLY lurk on these boards.
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Whatever and moving on.
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Essentially, the "publication" of these secret policies confirms that airlines obviously have private policies they can enact to do whatever they want that is within the bounds of the law. Carriers can use whatever service recovery tools they want to use.... but they still do this OUTSIDE of the realm of their tariff.
And that means that unless they are willing to public testify such policies exist or publish them, then they are exceptions which as I noted any carrier can make.
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Given that these are exceptions to written, published policies, then a passenger is not ENTITLED to them and may or may not be given that policy - and that was proven by your (which two of you was it?) citations from Flyersquawk.
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I'm ready to move on... but remember that you have been held to the same standard that you (two?) held me to on some of the postings I made.... problem is that you (two?) and others never asked for specific citations for any of the data I presented... and I could have easily provided it had you asked. ... cause I make it pretty clear what is my opinion and what is fact - and if it is fact, I can back it up. If it is opinion, I can tell the data that went into my thought process but the rest is obviously "proprietary".
Perhaps you (two, too?) should be just as careful about ensuring that what you post as fact is actually fact and can be backed up as such - or else could it as HEARSAY - which is exactly the way what you have presented would be viewed in a court of law.
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I still hope that, since you have determined that Delta does in fact still have a heart, that the OP will write to DL and say that, based on HEARSAY he understands that DL has a trip in vain policy and he would like his situation reviewed in that light.
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Clear... ?
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Time to move on?

 

[Veritas]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by WorldTraveler.

Is there an echo in here?

 

[eolesen]

First you say the policy doesn't exist.

Then you say it might exist, but you can't prove it.

Now that I provide proof and verify it thru another forum member, you start deciding that we're one and the same person, and that I'm in violation of a NDA?...

Let me be clear: substantiating everything said on these forums by me or anyone else with cross-references isn't going to happen all the time. You might go re-read all those threads where you think I'm the one asking you to do so.

What I've said is that you should be more transparent with your credentials, which would in turn might lend more credibility to some of your statements and observations, and perhaps make people stop questioning you.


Despite your repeated attempts to attack my credibility and take this as a personal assault on you and Delta, the fact is that you were incorrect in your original rebuttal of what was said about the topic and the situation.

So if you really believed all those statements targeted at me about "accept it when you're wrong" when you wrote them, then perhaps it's time that you heed your own advice.

It's a fact is that my day job requires having a deep understanding and knowledge about best practices at different airlines, and that's end-to-end with regard to airport customer experience, ground operations, and also eCommerce.

That's not just a hobby, nor is it just something I learned years ago, stopped doing, and keep referring back to. That's why someone like me with 15-30 years of experience stays busy, and provides far more value to a client than someone who has an MBA and simply is able to regurgitate case studies from business school.

You call it arrogence, but I call it confidence (a phrase you've used quite often as well, no?).

And so far, my clients seem satisfied with their results, which is the only thing that I care about.

 

[WorldTraveler]

If it's a policy that isn't published to the world regardless of the company or industry, then it is an internal policy - which for all legal and practical purposes is an exception to what is published.
I have never said that DL or any other airline can't make exceptions to their policies... and as far as any legal basis for which the OP might ask for a waiver to his fare, it is an EXCEPTION to published rules and policies.
In contrast, rules such as check-in times, baggage limits, and denied boarding policies are published and well known - and the DOT requires that airilnes make those rules available on request from a customer - and often even more visible than that - ie on check-in counters.
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I have no problems w/ acknowledging that there are policies that exist - but since you can't prove them and there is no airline that publishes such a policy, then it is not intended for general public knowledge and as such is viewed as an exception. The fact that you know they exist is no different that if I quote internal information which I might know about but which I can't provide evidence for....
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I completely agree with the concept that if facts are handled as facts they be substantiated to the degree possible... otherwise, they aren't really facts for the point of convincing others to our points of view.
If something is presented as a fact but no documented evidence can be put forward, then it isn't facts anymore.
That being said, there are copyright restrictions that present some things from being posted - and that includes your post from Holly or my excerpts from Aviation Daily....
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I'm not sure why you are so hung up w/ my credentials but I still stand by the concept that if IT is true, IT is true regardless of who says it.
I don't need to tout my credentials if something is self-evident.
To give you just a few, though, I have 2 graduate degrees, am working on a third, am involved in leadership development and training in cross-cultural settings, and teach at the graduate level on a variety of topics involving both humanities and business....
I frequently defer to people on these forums who have specific knowledge that I don't have...but I also don't talk about things such as operational issues because there are people who know more than I do... but the higher level insights I stay current about are still accurate.
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Since you aren't ready for the handshake, I'll simply say that I think we are coming to a meeting of the minds - and I continue to respect what you bring to this board and trust we can continue to each contribute from our knowledge and experience.
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Hope your weekend is great!

wT

BTW,
I still don't understand how e-mails which you had received ended up being posted by someone else if they were sent to you and you weren't supposed to disclose them... but whatever.