Defend Recall Rights, Defend Our Careers

[eolesen]

Unfortunately, they are being held hostage by the Company AND the Union, using people's careers, retirement, and lives as political pawns. There does not HAVE to be a lot of discussion, just grown ups doing the right thing.

Sorry, but negotiating works both ways -- if you want to play hardball, you'd better not be surprised when they respond with equal force.

The company asked for relief on things like picking up the cabin on turns instead of just thrus under 1500 miles, which didn't materially increase work and didn't eliminate jobs. APFA's response at the time was to walk away from the table, and said they weren't going to consider anything until 2008 negotiations.

Had they remained and worked with the company, perhaps the company would have been more willing to consider giving some relief on recall right now, instead of giving back APFA the same line they gave the company just a few months earlier.

 

[MCI transplant]

Once again, TH-BS Hotline is in error. TWA experienced a furlough that neared the 5 year mark, and that is how we wound up with 7 years. 9-11 has been used as "the reason". While it may have been true in the beginning, everyone should be outraged that AA is still getting mileage out of that tragic event. If 9-11 is still "the reason" then just because of the unique circumstances there COULD be a LAO, with a no precedent, no referral, to address this situation. Talk about taking the high ground! Just think how much "good press" AA could get for that gesture. It would be a win, win, for all concerned, (except JAN). Due to 9-11, many other companies chose to alter their furlough agreements to address this unprecedented event. Good people are wishing to be able to return to work. They are not trouble makers. Unfortunately, they are being held hostage by the Company AND the Union, using people's careers, retirement, and lives as political pawns. There does not HAVE to be a lot of discussion, just grown ups doing the right thing.

<_< ---- Some good points here! And remember we're talking about 1,000 nAAtive American F/A's also! It's not just a TWA thing!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---- So you fly just for the hell of it do you? You really don't sound too happy about it! Why don't you do yourself and everyone arround you a favor and just quit? Maybe they'd recall someone who wants to work! In your job if your not happy with what your doing it shows! And after all, we don't need any unhappy customers do we? As for me, you don't have a clue as to what I do! But I will tell you this! I've been doing it for thirty five plus years now! My boss don't complain! So whatever it is, I must be doing it right! Next time you look at the aircraft log, take a look at the "Aircraft Airworthiness Release"! The signature there may be mine!!!

 

[Ifly2]

AA states they don't know if we can buy into their corporate culture. That may be the highest compliment our group has ever been paid.

Amen!!!

No way that bunch of professional, courteous, caring, hard working, loyal F/A's who cared about their passengers and coworkers would ever really fit in with the 'usual' (there are exceptions, thankfully) surly, uncaring, arrogant, rule-bound AA culture.

They are sooooo much better than that.

They could improve things around here a bunch though,if given the chance. Might even embarass some of the native bunch into actually doing thier job.

 

[MCI transplant]

Amen!!!

No way that bunch of professional, courteous, caring, hard working, loyal F/A's who cared about their passengers and coworkers would ever really fit in with the 'usual' (there are exceptions, thankfully) surly, uncaring, arrogant, rule-bound AA culture.

They are sooooo much better than that.

They could improve things around here a bunch though,if given the chance. Might even embarass some of the native bunch into actually doing thier job.

<_< ----- Maybe that's what they're afraid of!!!

 

[nbmcg01]

Sorry, but negotiating works both ways -- if you want to play hardball, you'd better not be surprised when they respond with equal force.

The company asked for relief on things like picking up the cabin on turns instead of just thrus under 1500 miles, which didn't materially increase work and didn't eliminate jobs. APFA's response at the time was to walk away from the table, and said they weren't going to consider anything until 2008 negotiations.

Had they remained and worked with the company, perhaps the company would have been more willing to consider giving some relief on recall right now, instead of giving back APFA the same line they gave the company just a few months earlier.

In this unusual circumstance (the Co is still using the 9-11 excuse), it is up to the Co to do the right thing without strings attached. Sometimes you need to take the morale high ground. I would be willing (with proper press) to put a priceless amount on the goodwill gain factor. ex. I never shopped at Sears. Because of their continuing support of service men and their families, and the community support they offer through shows like extreme home makeover, I now make an effort to support that store. American needs to put "American" back into the equation.

F/as cleaning planes. I'll tell you why this may sound good on paper but does not promote on time service. F/as do not stay with the planes. Many times we have multiple legs and plane changes with short ground times. Tending to deplaning passengers is first priority. Unaccompanied minors, multiple wheelchairs, and general passenger assistance takes up much of our time. Then we have the "mad dash" because ground control must not be informed of what gate the crew will need to be connecting to for their next flight. New airplane, we have required preflight duties before anyone can board. If there is a marshall on board, that requires an additional briefing. It is more important to maintain on-time than play games over f/a doing non flight additional tasks. Good crews "pick up" prior to landing, taking everything but someone's kid or ex.
The milage "rule" was put into place because on longer flights, a plane NEEDS a more thorough cleaning and should be done by the ground personnel. Personally, I don't think flight crews ought to do any after landing cleaning. I don't ask the ground personnel to do my galley or preflight safety checks. And one more reason, no crew meals. Many flight days are long, ground times short, and the ability to grab a bite to eat is limited. More extensive required cleaning just doesn't make good sense for anyone but the ground bean crunchers who are trying to balance their budgets on the back of Flight Service.

Apples and oranges....

 

[eolesen]

F/as cleaning planes. I'll tell you why this may sound good on paper but does not promote on time service. F/as do not stay with the planes.

Maybe not in the hubs as much, but you're full of crap to tell me that when you do a DFW-DEN-DFW or ORD-OMA-DFW turn that you're not staying with the plane.

Back in the B727 days, we did an analysis with Crew Planning which pegged the number of FA routings that stayed with the aircraft in spoke turns to be upward of 80% (with 15% of the remaining 20% being at cities like LAX, BOS, SFO). I doubt that has changed much at the spokes. If anything, it's probably higher today as part of the effort to reduce turn times in the spokes with checkerboard.

Back to the topic, though.... I don't disagree with the idea of extending recall. It's probably a noble thing to do, but the stats on the number of people actually returning after four+ years aren't made up.

To the company, it doesn't matter if they're hiring someone new off the street or re-training a furloughee who hasn't worked the line in over five years.

It's obviously not important enough to APFA either, and THB's note is just window dressing as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise, they would have addressed this issue earlier than a couple months before the first expiration date.

 

[nbmcg01]

Maybe not in the hubs as much, but you're full of crap to tell me that when you do a DFW-DEN-DFW or ORD-OMA-DFW turn that you're not staying with the plane.

Back in the B727 days, we did an analysis with Crew Planning which pegged the number of FA routings that stayed with the aircraft in spoke turns to be upward of 80% (with 15% of the remaining 20% being at cities like LAX, BOS, SFO). I doubt that has changed much at the spokes. If anything, it's probably higher today as part of the effort to reduce turn times in the spokes with checkerboard.

Back to the topic, though.... I don't disagree with the idea of extending recall. It's probably a noble thing to do, but the stats on the number of people actually returning after four+ years aren't made up.

To the company, it doesn't matter if they're hiring someone new off the street or re-training a furloughee who hasn't worked the line in over five years.

It's obviously not important enough to APFA either, and THB's note is just window dressing as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise, they would have addressed this issue earlier than a couple months before the first expiration date.

First of all, I'm retired so I should speak like a current line f/a. That being said, AA had the darndest way of getting us as far away as possible from our next aircraft. Usually it was the MCO flt. which required a good scrub down. You can't just make the rules for a few cities or legs. I still stand by the fact that "we" would never ask ground personnel to check out and prepare our galleys nor do our FAA safety checks, so why does an on ground cleaning task get schlepped to the "girls". Budget, that's why. We're considered the easiest target. "Oh just get the f/as to do it". It only make sense to the ramp bean counters.

Extending recall should not be left in the hands of Union. I don't care if only 100 want to return out of the 6000. They should be allowed to do so without loss of anymore seniority or benefits. I'm calling on American to be a morale and ethical company. Doesn't seem to hard to me. Interesting that "the girls" have the least amount of recall. Now that couldn't be discriminatory could it? Yes, it is contract but other airlines have "managed" to make additional provisions due to the nature of the layoff. American should be industy leading.

 

[Nor'Easta]

First of all, I'm retired so I should speak like a current line f/a.

You're retired, so you can't speak like a line f/a! You should play BINGO like a retied f/a, because that's your nameo!

 

[nbmcg01]

retired[/b], so you can't speak like a line f/a! You should play BINGO like a retied f/a, because that's your nameo!

Yes, I'm retired BUT I have 35 years of line experience, training, and union work. If you think for a moment that ANY of us have lost focus about life on the airplane, once again you're mistaken. As for playing BINGO, not this retiree. I retired ONLY because my son has a spinal cord injury that would keep me from long trips and commuting. I have been gainfully employed since I was furloughed. I am now in management which is an interesting twist to my years of union advocacy. 'Nor'Easta you have some serious anger issues that you might want to address with your EAP. You could do a lot worse than having me on "your team". I was an excellent f/a and better union rep. I have never lost a grievance and I'm lucky in my new job I can continue to use my f/a skills. On Fri. I won 2 appeals against the State (for my "clients") Life goes on and trust me you need every person on your side, retired or not. There are not many people that either understand the f/a job or have sympathy for what has been happening in the industry. I happen to do both. Grow up little one. If your are so disenchanted with the job, either run for union office and try to make a difference or think seriously about moving in a new direction. I'll bet you're a bunch of fun on a trip. Even in the worst of times I never disliked flying as much as you profess to dislike the job. Funny how AA is stuck with you and the people that really want to work are locked out.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Yes, I'm retired BUT I have 35 years of line experience, training, and union work. If you think for a moment that ANY of us have lost focus about life on the airplane, once again you're mistaken. As for playing BINGO, not this retiree. I retired ONLY because my son has a spinal cord injury that would keep me from long trips and commuting. I have been gainfully employed since I was furloughed. I am now in management which is an interesting twist to my years of union advocacy. 'Nor'Easta you have some serious anger issues that you might want to address with your EAP. You could do a lot worse than having me on "your team". I was an excellent f/a and better union rep. I have never lost a grievance and I'm lucky in my new job I can continue to use my f/a skills. On Fri. I won 2 appeals against the State (for my "clients") Life goes on and trust me you need every person on your side, retired or not. There are not many people that either understand the f/a job or have sympathy for what has been happening in the industry. I happen to do both. Grow up little one. If your are so disenchanted with the job, either run for union office and try to make a difference or think seriously about moving in a new direction. I'll bet you're a bunch of fun on a trip. Even in the worst of times I never disliked flying as much as you profess to dislike the job. Funny how AA is stuck with you and the people that really want to work are locked out.

I don't have any anger issues. I just enjoy giving all the furloughed TWA f/a's a hard time. All you guys do is bit*h and complain, that you got the shaft. The APFA protected our members under Article 1 of our CBA. Your old union the IAM SOLD YOU OUT!

I am glad you have a new career and are doing well. Just quit the bit*hing and complaining and get over it! It happened 3-5 years ago, depending on your seniority. It's in the PAST!

 

[nbmcg01]

PAST[/b]!

I haven't bitched or complained. I have stated a problem and a solution. Whether you like it or not, those still furloughed are your PEERS. Shame on you for such discriminatory comments. p.s. The IAM was only "my union" for a very short time. I was not a member. I was a dues paying "objector" or agency fee participant. I had an ethical issue that couldn't be resolved so I resigned my membership. I had ethics, they didn't...lol Please don't try and make this a seniority issue. I think everyone has gotten all the milage possible out of that issue. The first furloughed were under the IAM contract which had a different recall time. They were never sent "notice" that the terms had changed. HUMMMMMM

So what if the furlough happened in 2003. There are still "some" that would return. They should have that option. Not bitchin', just a very simple fact.

 

[TWAnr]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='415984' date='Sep 16 2006, 04:15 PM']I don't have any anger issues. I just enjoy giving all the furloughed TWA f/a's a hard time.[/quote]
You are one hopelessly miserable, despicable and bitter human being. What do you do in your spare time, torture kittens and puppies for fun of it?

 

[aafsc]

Amen!!!

No way that bunch of professional, courteous, caring, hard working, loyal F/A's who cared about their passengers and coworkers would ever really fit in with the 'usual' (there are exceptions, thankfully) surly, uncaring, arrogant, rule-bound AA culture.

They are sooooo much better than that.

They could improve things around here a bunch though,if given the chance. Might even embarass some of the native bunch into actually doing thier job.

This is an absurd statement. I have flown many flights on AA and not once have I seen our F/As (nAAtives) "not doing their jobs". I have observed them to be professional and courteous to the passengers. I also flew twa llc. right after the asset purchase and the twa F/As were the same. However, while at work, I had the opportunity to observe the ex-twa F/As in the crew room while twa llc was still a separate company. I can tell you that they were for the most part senior, bitter, and always complaining about how they were not "respected". Their venom was directed at AA and APFA. I don't see how they could be mad at AA then since AA GAVE THEM TOP PAY. As for their anger at APFA, I'm sure it has to do with their placement on the seniority list. APFA did exactly what it was required to do by law in terms of protecting it's members (twa F/As were not members at the time and APFA is not affiliated with the AFL-CIO). Perhaps the ex-twa F/As should place the blame where it belongs- on the IAM. It was the IAM who waived their LPPs. Attacking the professionalism of the nAAtive F/As simply because the twa F/As did not get their twa seniority at AA is non-sense. In spite of pay cuts, long hours, and short layovers, the nAAtive F/As are still doing an excellent job.

 

[L1011Ret]

You are one hopelessly miserable, despicable and bitter human being. What do you do in your spare time, torture kittens and puppies for fun of it?

He does not have that much imagination...