Regardless if your MOU is voted in or not, you will be fighting with parker and kirby the rest of you days. Their interpretation of the MOU will differ from the pilots.
Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion
- Thread starter Admin
- Start date
- Status
Regardless if your MOU is voted in or not, you will be fighting with parker and kirby the rest of you days. Their interpretation of the MOU will differ from the pilots.
I think PB meant West pilots, but the fact is usapa marginalized the entire pilot group when they stripped 1/3 of it from having representation.
All this recent talk about the mountain of outstanding grievances for example. Company's fault? I do not think so. I think it is scab's fault for wasting millions of $ and thousands of man hours on a single disingenuous LOA93 grievance.
Want to know the difference between a lottery ticket and the Nic?
There is no expiration date on the Nic!
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
I swear, you're like a child who sees something and thinks I want it therefore I deserve to have it.
It's not what you want or think you deserve, it's what do you have the leverage to get.
APA is being compensated for concessions made in this bankruptcy whether there is a merger or not.
Go ahead, throw a tantrum and vote no.
Why do you consider East pilots scabs? Be specific.
Says the pilot who's Piedmont pilot dad paid for his education, flying hours and got him the job at US Airways with daddys influence. You do not if I may quote you "deservet".
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
The Lion and the Gnat (USAPA and Nic4Us)
[background=transparent]
Far away in Central Africa, that vast land where dense forests and wild beasts abound, the shades of night were once more descending, warning all creatures that it was time to seek repose.[/background][background=transparent]
All day long the sun had been like a great burning eye, but now, after painting the western sky with crimson and scarlet and gold, he had disappeared into his fleecy bed; the various creatures of the forest had sought their holes and resting-places; the last sound had rumbled its rumble, the last bee had mumbled his mumble, and the last bear had grumbled his grumble; even the grasshoppers that had been chirruping, chirruping, through all the long hours without a pause, at length had ceased their shrill music, tucked up their long legs, and given themselves to slumber.[/background][background=transparent]
There on a nodding grass-blade, a tiny Gnat had made a swinging couch, and he too had folded his wings, closed his tiny eyes, and was fast asleep. Darker, darker, darker became the night until the darkness could almost be felt, and over all was a solemn stillness as though some powerful finger had been raised, and some potent voice had whispered, “HU—SH!”[/background][background=transparent]
Just when all was perfectly still, there came suddenly from the far away depths of the forest, like the roll of thunder, a mighty ROAR—R—R—R![/background][background=transparent]
In a moment all the beasts and birds were wide awake, and the poor little Gnat was nearly frightened out of his little senses, and his little heart went pit-a-pat. He rubbed his little eyes with his feelers, and then peered all around trying to penetrate the deep gloom as he whispered in terror—“What—was—that?”[/background][background=transparent]
What do you think it was?... Yes, a LION! A great, big lion who, while most other denizens of the forest slept, was out hunting for prey. He came rushing and crashing through the thick undergrowth of the forest, swirling his long tail and opening wide his great jaws, and as he rushed he RO-AR-R-R-ED![/background][background=transparent]
Presently he reached the spot where the little Gnat hung panting at the tip of the waving grass-blade. Now the little Gnat was not afraid of lions, so when he saw it was only a lion, he cried out—[/background][background=transparent]
“Hi, stop, stop! What are you making that horrible noise about?”[/background][background=transparent]
The Lion stopped short, then backed slowly and regarded the Gnat with scorn.[/background][background=transparent]
“Why, you tiny, little, mean, insignificant creature you, how DARE you speak to ME?” he raged.[/background][background=transparent]
“How dare I speak to you?” repeated the Gnat quietly. “By the virtue of right, which is always greater than might. Why don’t you keep to your own part of the forest? What right have you to be here, disturbing folks at this time of night?”[/background][background=transparent]
By a mighty effort the Lion restrained his anger—he knew that to obtain mastery over others one must be master over oneself.[/background][background=transparent]
“What right?” he repeated in dignified tones. “Because I’m King of the Forest. That’s why. I can do no wrong, for all the other creatures of the forest are afraid of me. I DO what I please, I SAY what I please, I EAT whom I please, I GO where I please—simply because I’m King of the Forest.”[/background][background=transparent]
“But who told you you were King?” demanded the Gnat. “Just answer me that!”[/background][background=transparent]
“Who told ME?” roared the Lion. “Why, everyone acknowledges it—don’t I tell you that everyone is afraid of me?”[/background][background=transparent]
“Indeed!” cried the Gnat disdainfully. “Pray don’t say all, for I’m not afraid of you. And further, I deny your right to be King.”[/background][background=transparent]
This was too much for the Lion. He now worked himself into a perfect fury.[/background][background=transparent]
“You—you—YOU deny my right as King?”[/background][background=transparent]
“I do, and, what is more, you shall never be King until you have fought and conquered me.”[/background][background=transparent]
The Lion laughed a great lion laugh, and a lion laugh cannot be laughed at like a cat laugh, as everyone ought to know.[/background][background=transparent]
“Fight—did you say fight?” he asked. “Who ever heard of a lion fighting a gnat? Here, out of my way, you atom of nothing! I’ll blow you to the other end of the world.”[/background][background=transparent]
But though the Lion puffed his cheeks until they were like great bellows, and then blew with all his might, he could not disturb the little Gnat’s hold on the swaying grass-blade.[/background][background=transparent]
“You’ll blow all your whiskers away if you are not careful,” he said, with a laugh—“but you won’t move me. And if you dare leave this spot without fighting me, I’ll tell all the beasts of the forest that you are afraid of me, and they’ll make me King.”[/background][background=transparent]
“Ho, ho!” roared the Lion. “Very well, since you will fight, let it be so.”[/background][background=transparent]
“You agree to the conditions, then? The one who conquers shall be King?”[/background][background=transparent]
“Oh, certainly,” laughed the Lion, for he expected an easy victory. “Are you ready?”[/background][background=transparent]
“Quite ready.”[/background][background=transparent]
“Then—GO!” roared the Lion.[/background][background=transparent]
And with that he sprang forward with open jaws, thinking he could easily swallow a million gnats. But just as the great jaws were about to close upon the blade of grass whereto the Gnat clung, what should happen but that the Gnat suddenly spread his wings and nimbly flew—where do you think?—right into one of the Lion’s nostrils! And there he began to sting, sting, sting. The Lion wondered, and thundered, and blundered—but the Gnat went on stinging; he foamed, and he moaned, and he groaned—still the Gnat went on stinging; he rubbed his head on the ground in agony, he swirled his tail in furious passion, he roared, he spluttered, he sniffed, he snuffed—and still the Gnat went on stinging.[/background][background=transparent]
“O my poor nose, my nose, my nose!” the Lion began to moan. “Come down, come DOWN, come DOWN! My nose, my NOSE, my NOSE!! You’re King of the Forest, you’re King, you’re King—only come down. My nose, my NOSE, my NOSE!”[/background][background=transparent]
So at last the Gnat flew out from the Lion’s nostril and went back to his waving grass-blade, while the Lion slunk away into the depths of the forest with his tail between his legs—beaten, and by a tiny Gnat![/background][background=transparent]
“What a fine fellow am I, to be sure!” exclaimed the Gnat, as he proudly plumed his wings. “I’ve beaten a lion—a lion! Dear me, I ought to have been King long ago, I’m so clever, so big, so strong—oh! ”[/background][background=transparent]
The Gnat’s frightened cry was caused by finding himself entangled in some silky sort of threads. While gloating over his victory, the wind had risen, and his grass-blade had swayed violently to and fro unnoticed by him. A stronger gust than usual had bent the blade downward close to the ground, and then something caught it and held it fast and with it the victorious Gnat. Oh, the desperate struggles he made to get free! Alas! he became more entangled than ever. You can guess what it was—a spider’s web, hung out from the overhanging branch of a tree. Then—flipperty-flopperty, flipperty-flopperty, flop, flip, flop—down his stairs came cunning Father Spider and quickly gobbled up the little Gnat for his supper, and that was the end of him.[/background][background=transparent]
A strong Lion—and what overcame him? A Gnat.[/background][background=transparent]
A clever Gnat—and what overcame him? A Spider’s web! He who had beaten the strong lion had been overcome by the subtle snare of a spider’s thread.[/background]
Walmartgreeter
Veteran
- Mar 6, 2003
- 1,430
- 1,143
Years of argument on that "cost neutral" statment. Simply not true. But soon to be moot.Greeter.
True.....
So the choices are:
a: accept the MOU which, even with it's vague language, improves our working conditions, puts an end to the NIC dispute, builds a bridge to APA, is an intermediate agreement followed by a JCBA in a short time, and provides us with 14,000 pilots to fight Parker and Kirby with.
or
b: vote down the MOU which possibly leaves us on LOA93 for an undisclosed period of time, hope to win a grievance, say 2-5 yrs from now on the CoC (which by that time we would have done better financially with the MOU), alienated the APA pilots, causing us to once again be a divided union, and leave us fighting Parker and Kirby with 3500 East pilots and 1800 disgruntled West pilots.
breeze
Another victim.
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
Did you get that Flight Attendant interview yet?
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
It is what it is. 80% plus of the normal folk are buyers and prefer to hear the sales pitch and are happy.. 20% at most are sellers and view their signature as a point of sale, for a price, and account the written promise to be the final agreement and payoff.
It was not always this way... In the days before folks could read and write, they had a more dramatic way of signing documents. They would haggle back and forth. Spit, scream, beat their chest, and scowl toward the end of negotiations.... and then upon completion of the final terms they would calmly join their hands on the neck of a goat, lamb, or other suitable main course, and then they would nod to each other, acknowledging that they would be as this animal if they didn't keep their word.... and then they would slice its neck and eat a festive dinner of celebration together, symbolic of their sure and enduring new partnership.
We have lost a little along the way with pen and paper.
Daddys boy. What a loser!
Special MEC Meeting
Dallas, TX
January 4, 2006
1:10 Meeting convenes
Roll Call
Swiatkowski Jones
Rowe Ciabattoni
Cross proxy Svensdsen Svendsen
Brookman Wagner
Guerrero proxy Iorio Belz proxy Baier
Sauer Baier
Bob Christy, Bill Roberts, Steve Smyser, Dan Scola, Don Hollerbach, Jack Greenhall, Doug Mowery, Tawnya Stanford, Jack Stephan, Bobbi Harris, Jeannie Redd, Anya (Communications) (50 people in attendance)
Review Agenda
Joint meeting with America West MEC at 1:30
Not a formal session
1:30 Joint meeting starts
In attendance: America West MEC, new MEC members, National Attorneys, JNC both US Airways and America West
Without objection all new members have speaking privileges
13:50 Presentation by Joint Negotiating Committee to the AAA/AWA MECs
14:20 end of presentation
5 minute recess
2:35 back in session
Q & A
3:50 5 minute recess
4:00 back in session with more Q&A
5:00 Conference call with Phil Comstock
5:20 recess until 9:00 AM
Day 2, January 5, 2006
9:05 Meeting reconvenes
(50 people in attendance)
Bill covers orders of business for today
Phase 2 of contract sections
11:30 Bruce York, Mike Abram about US Airways MEC Resolution
Discussion of 153a
Communication Report
09:15 JNC explains Phase 2 of contract negotiations
10:15 end of presentation
5 minute recess
10:30 Closed meeting
Mike Abram on speaker phone
Bruce York
11:56 break for lunch
12:38 back in closed session
14:36 In open session
One goal, one voice
5 minute recess
3:08 back in session – special MEC meeting
Roll Call
Swiatkowski
Jones
Rowe
Ciabattoni proxy Rowe
Cross
Svendsen
Brookman proxy Wagner
Wagner
Guerrero proxy Iorio
Belz proxy Baier
Sauer
Baier
AI 05-153a Contract Negotiations
Motion: Rowe/Wagner
WHEREAS Jerrold Glass has presented the JNC with a letter from Mr. Hemenway dated November 17, 2005 which in effect neuters any prospective post-bankruptcy gains to any combined merged pilot agreement, and
WHEREAS, in said letter, the company declares that ³closed sections² are not really closed if the Association presents other sections that affect the economic impact of the completed agreement, and
WHEREAS, in said letter, the company reserves a right to impose the US Airways CBA if it deems a new agreement is not reached in a ³timely manner², or absent the ³same cost structure² as the US Airways CBA, and
WHEREAS, the US Airways pilots expect that their enormous sacrifices, which saved the company during bankruptcy, would be rewarded and partially restored in a post-bankruptcy environment,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the MEC withdraws its JNC members from further meetings with the company and terminate any further discussions until such time as said letter is retracted, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the MEC clearly express, and management acknowledge expectations of increased returns in the combined agreement, for any negotiations to resume.
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, that the America West MEC shall be encouraged to endorse an equivalent resolution from their pilots.
Substitute motion to AI 05-153a
Cross/Jones
WHEREAS management has indicated that overall cost savings can be achieved by synergies associated with combining the operations of AAA and AWA, and
WHEREAS in order to be able to combine the two operations, it is necessary for management and the Association to mutually agree upon a single collective bargaining agreement, and
WHEREAS a question of managerial willingness, ability and sincerity to bargain in good faith has arisen during joint negotiations, and
WHEREAS it is in the best interest of all US Airways pilots to know whether it is managements’ intent to engage in good faith bargaining in order to achieve a single CBA as stipulated in the Transition Agreement, and
WHEREAS reaching binding agreement on economic sections as soon as possible would be a clear indication that management is sincere in their desire to achieve a single collective bargaining agreement,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC directs the US Airways members of the JNC to reemphasize economic issues and address the economic sections of the combined CBA at the next scheduled negotiating sessions, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC expects management to demonstrate that they are willing and able to engage in sincere, good faith bargaining on significant areas of the CBA by reaching indisputable, binding agreements acceptable to the US Airways pilots on economic sections of the new CBA at the earliest possible opportunity.
Discussion
POI Rowe – question on Jones reading resolution
Negotiating Committee - what is it you want us to do on January 24[sup]th[/sup]
Reemphasize economics - do an analysis on pay, vacation, benefits, retirement
POI – Svendsen
POI – Baier
POI – Iorio
POI – Baier
16:07 Close meeting to all in room
17:03 open session
Editorial Jones
WHEREAS management has indicated that overall cost savings can be achieved by synergies associated with combining the operations of AAA and AWA, and
WHEREAS in order to be able to combine the two operations, it is necessary for management and the Association to mutually agree upon a single collective bargaining agreement, and
WHEREAS as a result of the Hemenway letter, a question of managerial willingness, ability and sincerity to bargain in good faith has arisen during joint negotiations, and
WHEREAS it is in the best interest of all US Airways pilots to know whether it is managements’ intent to engage in good faith bargaining in order to achieve a single CBA as stipulated in the Transition Agreement, and
WHEREAS reaching binding agreement on economic sections as soon as possible would be a clear indication that management is sincere in their desire to achieve a single collective bargaining agreement,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC directs the US Airways members of the JNC to reemphasize economic issues and address the economic sections of the combined CBA atthe next upcoming scheduled negotiating sessions, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC expects management to demonstrate that they are willing and able to engage in sincere, good faith bargaining on significant areas of the CBA by reaching indisputable, binding agreements acceptable to the US Airways pilots on economic sections of the new CBA at the earliest possible opportunity.
Rowe add
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the JNC continue these negotiations with the company immediately after the rescinding of the Hemenway letter.
Not accepted by maker
Divisions
Roll Call – Rowe
Swiatkowski yes
Jones yes
Rowe no
Ciabattoni no
Cross yes
Svendsen yes
Brookman no
Wagner no
Iorio yes
Belz yes
Sauer yes
Baier yses
1433 to 1207
Motion Passes
17::24 recess
18:23 Back in session
Communications briefing
Jack Stephan and Peter Blandinio
18:44 Special MEC meeting is adjourned
JR Baker speaks
18:45 adjourned
Dallas, TX
January 4, 2006
1:10 Meeting convenes
Roll Call
Swiatkowski Jones
Rowe Ciabattoni
Cross proxy Svensdsen Svendsen
Brookman Wagner
Guerrero proxy Iorio Belz proxy Baier
Sauer Baier
Bob Christy, Bill Roberts, Steve Smyser, Dan Scola, Don Hollerbach, Jack Greenhall, Doug Mowery, Tawnya Stanford, Jack Stephan, Bobbi Harris, Jeannie Redd, Anya (Communications) (50 people in attendance)
Review Agenda
Joint meeting with America West MEC at 1:30
Not a formal session
1:30 Joint meeting starts
In attendance: America West MEC, new MEC members, National Attorneys, JNC both US Airways and America West
Without objection all new members have speaking privileges
13:50 Presentation by Joint Negotiating Committee to the AAA/AWA MECs
14:20 end of presentation
5 minute recess
2:35 back in session
Q & A
3:50 5 minute recess
4:00 back in session with more Q&A
5:00 Conference call with Phil Comstock
5:20 recess until 9:00 AM
Day 2, January 5, 2006
9:05 Meeting reconvenes
(50 people in attendance)
Bill covers orders of business for today
Phase 2 of contract sections
11:30 Bruce York, Mike Abram about US Airways MEC Resolution
Discussion of 153a
Communication Report
09:15 JNC explains Phase 2 of contract negotiations
10:15 end of presentation
5 minute recess
10:30 Closed meeting
Mike Abram on speaker phone
Bruce York
11:56 break for lunch
12:38 back in closed session
14:36 In open session
One goal, one voice
5 minute recess
3:08 back in session – special MEC meeting
Roll Call
Swiatkowski
Jones
Rowe
Ciabattoni proxy Rowe
Cross
Svendsen
Brookman proxy Wagner
Wagner
Guerrero proxy Iorio
Belz proxy Baier
Sauer
Baier
AI 05-153a Contract Negotiations
Motion: Rowe/Wagner
WHEREAS Jerrold Glass has presented the JNC with a letter from Mr. Hemenway dated November 17, 2005 which in effect neuters any prospective post-bankruptcy gains to any combined merged pilot agreement, and
WHEREAS, in said letter, the company declares that ³closed sections² are not really closed if the Association presents other sections that affect the economic impact of the completed agreement, and
WHEREAS, in said letter, the company reserves a right to impose the US Airways CBA if it deems a new agreement is not reached in a ³timely manner², or absent the ³same cost structure² as the US Airways CBA, and
WHEREAS, the US Airways pilots expect that their enormous sacrifices, which saved the company during bankruptcy, would be rewarded and partially restored in a post-bankruptcy environment,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the MEC withdraws its JNC members from further meetings with the company and terminate any further discussions until such time as said letter is retracted, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the MEC clearly express, and management acknowledge expectations of increased returns in the combined agreement, for any negotiations to resume.
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, that the America West MEC shall be encouraged to endorse an equivalent resolution from their pilots.
Substitute motion to AI 05-153a
Cross/Jones
WHEREAS management has indicated that overall cost savings can be achieved by synergies associated with combining the operations of AAA and AWA, and
WHEREAS in order to be able to combine the two operations, it is necessary for management and the Association to mutually agree upon a single collective bargaining agreement, and
WHEREAS a question of managerial willingness, ability and sincerity to bargain in good faith has arisen during joint negotiations, and
WHEREAS it is in the best interest of all US Airways pilots to know whether it is managements’ intent to engage in good faith bargaining in order to achieve a single CBA as stipulated in the Transition Agreement, and
WHEREAS reaching binding agreement on economic sections as soon as possible would be a clear indication that management is sincere in their desire to achieve a single collective bargaining agreement,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC directs the US Airways members of the JNC to reemphasize economic issues and address the economic sections of the combined CBA at the next scheduled negotiating sessions, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC expects management to demonstrate that they are willing and able to engage in sincere, good faith bargaining on significant areas of the CBA by reaching indisputable, binding agreements acceptable to the US Airways pilots on economic sections of the new CBA at the earliest possible opportunity.
Discussion
POI Rowe – question on Jones reading resolution
Negotiating Committee - what is it you want us to do on January 24[sup]th[/sup]
Reemphasize economics - do an analysis on pay, vacation, benefits, retirement
POI – Svendsen
POI – Baier
POI – Iorio
POI – Baier
16:07 Close meeting to all in room
17:03 open session
Editorial Jones
WHEREAS management has indicated that overall cost savings can be achieved by synergies associated with combining the operations of AAA and AWA, and
WHEREAS in order to be able to combine the two operations, it is necessary for management and the Association to mutually agree upon a single collective bargaining agreement, and
WHEREAS as a result of the Hemenway letter, a question of managerial willingness, ability and sincerity to bargain in good faith has arisen during joint negotiations, and
WHEREAS it is in the best interest of all US Airways pilots to know whether it is managements’ intent to engage in good faith bargaining in order to achieve a single CBA as stipulated in the Transition Agreement, and
WHEREAS reaching binding agreement on economic sections as soon as possible would be a clear indication that management is sincere in their desire to achieve a single collective bargaining agreement,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC directs the US Airways members of the JNC to reemphasize economic issues and address the economic sections of the combined CBA at
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC expects management to demonstrate that they are willing and able to engage in sincere, good faith bargaining on significant areas of the CBA by reaching indisputable, binding agreements acceptable to the US Airways pilots on economic sections of the new CBA at the earliest possible opportunity.
Rowe add
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the JNC continue these negotiations with the company immediately after the rescinding of the Hemenway letter.
Not accepted by maker
Divisions
Roll Call – Rowe
Swiatkowski yes
Jones yes
Rowe no
Ciabattoni no
Cross yes
Svendsen yes
Brookman no
Wagner no
Iorio yes
Belz yes
Sauer yes
Baier yses
1433 to 1207
Motion Passes
17::24 recess
18:23 Back in session
Communications briefing
Jack Stephan and Peter Blandinio
18:44 Special MEC meeting is adjourned
JR Baker speaks
18:45 adjourned
Claxon, you are sounding like prechilli and that is not a good thing.
- Status
