Daves Message For The Week

[28yearsnojob]

Thats what i want to heAR . I been playing with you guys for weeks now.
YOUR RIGHT NO JOB DONT GIVE THEM A NICKLE . IN 2002 I gave back 10000.00 in wages and benifits and the union and the company agreed that it would be enough .Weeks later Im out of a job.They lied lied lied .they will take every last penny from you if you open up the contracts.It will be like having no job.please dont let them do it to the existing work force fight them to the end.Management has the most to lose with there big fat salaries and egos as big as skyscrapers.No other airline will take them ,because they have proven they cant manage this one.
What comes around goes around.Give them the fight of there lives.

 

[ITRADE]

Wow...So many comments about Nucor.

First, Dan would NEVER come to US Airways. He doesn't like idiots, doesn't tolerate idiots, and does not like unions. Getting him into the same room with Bill Kleinfelter is equivalent to getting the arabs and Israelis together.

One thing you'll notice about Nucor, they've taken over a lot of assets and grown a lot of assets in the past decade or so. Birmingham Steel, Auburn Steel, Trico, etc. Why did they acquire these assets? Because no a single on of the acquired targets was a union mill. Not one.

Nucor would not touch Republic or Bethlehem with a 20-foot pole because the standpoints of the USWA are opposite those of Nucor - efficiency, low manhours/ton, and accountability are hallmarks of Nucor. Go on down to their Darlington or Auburn mills. You'll see next to no employees around. They're all working. Pop on over to US Steel's Gary works and you'd think that you've arrived at a retirement home. The contrast is amazing.

As to their wages, PitBull, they're not as high as you think. I'm definately in a position to know this.

I'll be sure to pass your compliments along to Dan when I go to see him in a week or so.

 

[PITbull]

ITRADE,

Only thing I can agree with you is that Dan would NEVER bother with bumbling idiots in CCY. I most certainly can agree with you on that. He would never tolerate the "stupidity" and ingnorance of management in charge of the day to day operation. And he would never stand for the lack of respect and regard of his employees from a bunch of arrogant knucleheads.

Yes sir, day one....you'd all be fired!

PS: The steel workers make up to $70-90,000 per year.

Sorry, would mean no bonus for you....boo, hoo, hoo....

PS: when you speak of US Steels Gary works, are you discriminating against older workers?

 

[ITRADE]

They don't make quite that much.

They make decent money. The thing that makes them look like they make more money arises out of the fact that Nucor's mills are usually in rural locations. Hertferd, North Carolina is one of the poorest areas of the United States.

So, working for Nucor is a real privilege and the employees don't engage in any shenegans that would get them fired.

"And he would never stand for the lack of respect and regard of his employees from a bunch of arrogant knucleheads." Possibly, but he'd never allow the likes of you on the property either.

As to US Steel Gary, it is a function of the inefficient and awful USWA contract that makes things so miserable there. I doubt you have ever seen it. I have.

BTW, when you speak of "you," who are you referring to??? Inquiry minds want to know.

And, as to the "Only thing I can agree with you," its clear that you know absolutely nothing about Nucor other than what you're racing to pull off of their internet web site or from their 10Qs/10Ks. I work with their folks on a daily basis. I speak with their executive management all the time. I've been to Rexford Road. I've been to most all their mills. I can safely say that I'm in a better position to judge Nucor's performance than you are or - ever will be.

 

[Traveler]

If I might interject again.

You have to stick to broad generalities when making cross-border Industry comparisons. USAirways CEO has often cherry-picked the best of what works in other industries and at other Airlines. When pressed by the employees to adopt the business model of such stretched comparisons, he back-pedals. With adopting the LCC’s business model cost equation, he speaks so reverently of, He states something like –It won’t work at USAirways after all. We’d have to slash the Airline by Half. Get rid of half the employees.

The Airline Industry is a Labor intensive Services Industry. NuCor's holdings is Manufacturing. How many employees at NuCor's Mills interface with a piece of steel I-Beam. How many employees at any Airline interface with it’s Product –People. From pre-passenger arrival to post-passenger departure from Airline Properties, a separate employee touches or interacts in some way with the essence of it’s product – the passenger.

Further Complicate that... The nature of Manufacturing requires fewer highly skilled engineers and technicians per unit of product. Goodwill and Sales are generated by an extremely small percentage of total payroll. Satisfaction with the product is a function of equipment calibration, not product assembly line, employee/customer interface. A steel worker’s temperament in the bowels of the Mill, doesn’t translate to an insulted or pleasured customer.

An intensive services Industry such as the Airlines, takes all the above and magnifies the value of the customer/employee relationship by a factor of 1,000. The face worn by a Manufacturing salesman during a 60minute sales call has to be worn 8 hours a day or more by nearly all Services industry employees. The steelworker doesn’t require 8 hours of tolerance, patience and a cheery persona when handling the complex nature of steel I-Beam/human interactions. The steel Operation doesn’t require a self sustaining matrix complexity of 300 or 400 primary product producing Machines with thousands of capital intensive manned supporting vehicles. Federal Laws don’t require thousands of rated engineers and technicians to operate and calibrate daily functions in a 4-dimensional world of 20th Century transport.

What if we eliminate the disparity in a cross-border industry analysis and just focus on the broad generalities of Management/Employee relationships. “Who should go?â€￾, you ask. Could we simplify this debate and agree that the one who should go should be the one who has violated it’s Contractual agreement. If you sign a mutually agreed-upon Contract with one of your customers, are you obligated to uphold the agreement. Would your business last long if you didn’t fulfill you contractual obligations to customers. In the steel industry or any other industry. Doubtful...

So how does that speak to the credibility of those who breach such contracts?

Should Labor leaders “goâ€￾ because they didn’t fulfill mutually agreed-upon contracts with Management? Which section of which contract by which Labor group or Labor leader violated what provision. Naturally Management has yet to lose an arbitration or court indictment, therefore there is no breach of contract there!!???...

Have Labor leaders promoted Corporate disobedience or strict adherence to the terms of existing contracts? What’s the ultimate penalty for employees, either individually or collectively violating Contractual agreements? –Suspension, Termination, Court enforced financial penalty? What’s the ultimate corporate Penalty for indictments of Contract Violations by Mid and Upper-level Management? – Suspension, Termination, Financial Penalties? Don’t think so... Different rules here...

Who must go? Labor Leaders... Management... Both... None? Instead of subjective differences about all this, let’s mutually agree to an independent analysis as described earlier in this thread. Labor, I don’t think has a fear of such a thing. Does Management? If so, why? Is management adverse to Compromise? Or is it exposure? Or is it the spotlight they shun when it comes to finger pointing?

What was the Unisys Corporation Conclusion?... 1)US Airways’ failure to reduce costs— all costs, not just labor costs—to a level at least approaching those of newgeneration airlines. 2)US Airways’ failure to rethink its business model.â€￾

Is labor responsible for the design, development and implementation of such changes identified in the Conclusions above? Does Leadership radiate from the bottom -- up? Visionary directives from Labor Leaders to Executive implementation? Hardly. Executive Leaders at USAirways want no part of employee visionary contributions.

The employees are not fearful of an Organizational Audit. The employees are ready to bridge the gulf of mistrust. If you doubt it, take a poll...

Then Poll Management. Are they willing to bridge the gulf of mistrust with an organizational Audit?

“Failed to reduce costs – not just labor costsâ€￾...

“Failure to rethink it’s business modelâ€￾...

Since giving Management the tools they said they needed, is it Labor which is being unreasonable for asking for validation of Managements capacity to lead, to be forthright, to execute a solid business plan?

Few if any of those posting on such boards as these have the expertise to judge who should go or who should stay, who’s being reasonable and who’s not, who’s trustworthy and who’s not. To be perfectly credible, accept the challenge. Abide by the judgments of those who have the objective credibility to conduct an audit of USAirways Operational Management. It is the only bridge between Management and Labor over a gulf of mistrust.

No... Management won’t go along with this kind of Executive scrutiny. They’ll demand that employees accept their version of reality.

Why? Because judgment has already been passed by those such as the Unisys Corp, whose prognostications have been proven valid in very short order. No... Management will choose to keep the spotlight on the employees because it’s a paradigm of popular fashion.

Set up a Poll if you doubt the objectivity and cooperativeness of the Employees. See if the majority is willing to accept an outside audit as a bridge of trust at USAirways. See if the Employees would approve a third party validation of Management’s “State of the Airlineâ€￾ message – Is it Labor costs or is it Management’s Model of Operations.

 

[PITbull]

And, as to the "Only thing I can agree with you," its clear that you know absolutely nothing about Nucor other than what you're racing to pull off of their internet web site or from their 10Qs/10Ks. I work with their folks on a daily basis. I speak with their executive management all the time. I've been to Rexford Road. I've been to most all their mills. I can safely say that I'm in a better position to judge Nucor's performance than you are or - ever will be.

ITRADE,

I don't want to get indignant with you because I don't want to go into the "dog house".

But you are way off base, AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO I KNOW, WHERE I'VE BEEN, OR WHO I'VE BEEN WITH, AND ON WHAT LEVEL!

I'm a female, I have much more advantages than you on every level. I had owned their stock from 1998 through 2000, and was guided into buying them. Go pound salt with your pals. And try to get a life yourself with your over 1,000 posts. For someone who claims to travel, you don't go further than your desk top. Your trips must be to different lands on your computer. LOL....

Hey, how about a beer.....you buy

 

[PITbull]

I-Trade did you ever notice that when you ask specific and pointed questions, our friend PITbull goes on the attack and neglects to answer legitimate questions.

I mean if NuCor is so great then asking if US Unions would have to decertify in order to be like NuCor is a fair question. I for one would like to know.

Answer: NO!

I Personally, just want their management style.

Bob and ITRADE,

Care to address Traveler with his comments and knowledge of NUCOR and their differences in business structure? You think you could possibly?

Didn't think so...he's way to intelligent for the likes of you.

 

[ITRADE]

Thanks , I always knew I could expect a rational, insightful, thought-provoking commentary from you.

 

[ITRADE]

I concur with Traveler's comments about Nucor in that Nucor's primary function is of a manufacturing entity - the focus of which is singularly directed towards the production/sales of steel.

It does have several downstream entities such as steel fabrication, distribution, and a scrap processing/acquisition center.

I never felt that comparing US to Nucor was valid to begin with other than to the extent that good management/employee relations does tend to foster better overall business operations.

You've got good managers, good workers, flexible work arrangements.

Other than that, its very tough to even compare a manufacturing enterprise with a service enterprise.

 

[PITbull]

ITRADE,

That IS Traveler's point. You attempted to make some assinine comments about our labor structure and their CEO not ever wanting to deal with organized labor. NUCOR doesn't need to deal with unions as their employees have great working relationships, and fairness, and respect abound.

I figured Traveler could put you back in your rightful place.....

 

[Traveler]

Itrade,

"You've got good managers, good workers"

This is not a strange concept to the Airline Industry.

Perhpas some American presidents aren't as effective as others because, while they have the intellect, they don't have the managerial talent to assemble a team. President bush, I think proved that Managerial capacity to surround yourself with talent can covercome... well... um... those brain cells which might have been lost in the Frat House on beer bash Friday.

In focusing on constructive ideas, do you think perhaps a change in key second tier Executives would help build such a bridge of trust?... As a temp fix.

Validation by a "second Opinion" Audit of the Corporate Model?

Validation of Executive commitment with the "Iacocca Compensation Model"? Especially if Employees are called to duty again.

How about temporary emergency relief provisions, during a transitional phase of Re-Modeling, while an independent audit assesses retroactively, whether Operational Productivity and Efficiences could have and would be attainable with current existing Labor Agreements. If the analysis isn't favorable to Management then changes should be made in upper level personnel, the business model should be modified immediately and Employees who's Multi-Billion dollar sacrifice has been squandered should be recompensated for the financial emergency relief before any Executive is rewarded in any maner of wealth or financial gain.

If independent analysis determins that Management has done the best they can despite concessionary contracts, then Executives will be vindicated and will naturally benefit at the expense of Labor any way.

Any Constructive ideas to remedy or bridge the gulf of mistrust?

 

[PITbull]

Traveler,

Don't hold your breath on getting ITRADE to comment on your insightful analysis of U's current predictment and possible remedies.

It takes a "higher level" of thinking....and well.....

 

[PITbull]

You know Bob, I bet you DO piss off the pope.

Degrees have nothing to do with what is going on inside of U. You have only an inclination of what it is like, from these boards or the media and what we as employees are willing to share publically. If you sit with management, they will not tell you the full scope, you with your wisdom should be intuitive enough and know not to take what they tell you at full value. After all, they have a Hx of mistrust, exaggeration, half truths, and deception.

You have never sat and negotiated with them, or never have seen their wrath like many, many employees on the inside.

I don't tell you your job, and don't pretend to be a savior.

Frankly, I am disappointed in you on the level of your humanity. You state repeatedly and make no bones about it, you are on here and state your case for selfish reasons.

The major difference in our perspective is that I can tell you personally, my intent is not self-serving. By far my friend. I am neither Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, communist, socialist, or a religious zealot....I am merely "my brother's keeper".

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

I have got to go to bed in 1 second.....

What you have just stated above is that you would rather see folks concede to $9.00 to keep a job, than to walk away from a job and receive other employment that pays $9.00 an hour.

Do not gaze at those who still can keep their heads above water, and say they can afford to move down so that they are no longer able to pay their bills and maintain food on the table. There does come a point where it does not pay to remain gainfully employed when there is nothing to gain. Sometimes it is better to be forced out of a job, than to resign from one, as unemployment benefits do matter on our pay levels. Perhaps not the pilots, but you would think with all the income they made in the past, they would have a nest egg somewhere to rely on.

I don't think I need to tell you what portion of "disposable income" goes to food alone when you are raising a family. I don't think it is fair for anyone to have a job and have to subsidize it with partial unemployment compensation or food stamps. You have only an inclination of what is going on on the inside.....

 

[ITRADE]

Itrade,

"You've got good managers, good workers"

This is not a strange concept to the Airline Industry.

Perhpas some American presidents aren't as effective as others because, while they have the intellect, they don't have the managerial talent to assemble a team. President bush, I think proved that Managerial capacity to surround yourself with talent can covercome... well... um... those brain cells which might have been lost in the Frat House on beer bash Friday.

In focusing on constructive ideas, do you think perhaps a change in key second tier Executives would help build such a bridge of trust?... As a temp fix.

I don't think the second tier execs are the problem, necessarily. The battle lines have been drawn amongst Perry, Scotty, and the other union heads on one side, and Dave, Neil, Jerry, and other senior management on the other side. Until those groups stop the challenges via press release and newspaper leak, nothing is going to get done. Any other VP adjustments are already in play as we've seen at least three or four depart with another couple to follow.

Validation by a "second Opinion" Audit of the Corporate Model?

Isn't that partially what the Morgan Stanley deal is all about? Everybody knows what the problems are, its what the solutions to the problems will be. Simply put, costs outstrip revenues.

How about temporary emergency relief provisions, during a transitional phase of Re-Modeling, while an independent audit assesses retroactively, whether Operational Productivity and Efficiences could have and would be attainable with current existing Labor Agreements. If the analysis isn't favorable to Management then changes should be made in upper level personnel, the business model should be modified immediately and Employees who's Multi-Billion dollar sacrifice has been squandered should be recompensated for the financial emergency relief before any Executive is rewarded in any maner of wealth or financial gain.

I don't think a snap back provision is what is needed at this point - especially when financial covenants have been put in place via the ATSB. If you're going to symbolicly chop executive compensation to a ratio based compensation (i.e. Dave makes 1.5x the top line employee), fine, if it makes folks happy. But, that's not my decision to make. That's up to the BOD who is free to remove people as it sees fit.

If independent analysis determins that Management has done the best they can despite concessionary contracts, then Executives will be vindicated and will naturally benefit at the expense of Labor any way.

OK.

Any Constructive ideas to remedy or bridge the gulf of mistrust

As mentioned earlier, just come out with the plan. The cloak and dagger bull#### on all sides needs to stop.

As I've thought about things, I've come to realize that US could easily do one thing - if it had the cash. Early outs and early retirement.

Part of US's cost problem is not the pay or productivity (although there are certainly productivity issues). Part of the problem relates to the seniority system and furloughs. Because of the fleet reductions and because of the furloughs and allignment of seniority, you've got 12 and 15 year old pilots flying 737-300s. Those are very expensive pilots flying what should be a very junior aircraft. Same with FAs; same with staffing at the counters and in the hangars.

If you had extra cash and could cut off 5% of your workforce through early outs, you would be able to put some reality back into the system and make it look more like what it should look like. That would reduce CASM without actually having to reduce headcount. Older folks parachute out and younger furloughees drop in.