Dave Hand Picks Audience

[MarkMyWords]

KT -

I agree......Dave just doesn't get how important it is to MOTIVATE, INSPIRE and LEAD his employees. He is definitly not a carasmatic speaker by any means. Every time I hear him talk, all I can think of is how I want to pull my ears off because even when he is trying to be supportive and pat employees on the back, you just know there is a BUT coming.

I agree there could have been more detail and more definite direction. Honesty ad damage control should be top priorities. He has had 2 years to develop a plan. He has had 1 year since bankruptcy to impliment the plan. I believe that the delays in starting MDA really did put us in a pickle. If you remember, we were supposed to have the first airplane in the schedule in Sept 03.....we are 7 months behind. That is huge. In 7 months the industry and our competition has changed a lot! We haven't been able to respond with a great deal of muscle, cause we don't have enough assets in place to hold them back.

WN makes a great poster child for fear in our company and rightfully so. We have yet to find a way to co-exsist wth them, we have run from them before and they see us as a sitting duck. We really do have to find a way to be cost competitive with them.....we have no where left to hide. Will the exploit that......ABSOLUTELY! (If you were in their shoes, wouldn't you?)

 

[BoeingBoy]

MmW,

I can't give you a spot-on accurate number but the ballpark is the 50-55 block hours here vs 63-65 at WN.

Remember that this is not "for their 85 hour pay". I haven't seen anything on how many pay hours our average pilot gets per month, but the above numbers come from dividing the total block hours flown by the number of pilots.

Why the difference? Here's some reasons:

1) mixed fleet type - WN puts a pilot thru what's called "initial" training (first time on a particular airplane/seat combination) twice in their career - when hired and when moving to captain. We have pilots going to initial 2,3,& 4 times a year. Each time is a month in school/sim - pay with 0 block hours.

2) older average pilot group - more vacation, more sick, higher % of pilots on LT disability for medical conditions where they lose their FAA medical - pay with 0 block hours.

Oddly enough, the "productivity breaks" we crews hate so much are not inefficient - from the companies standpoint. There is normally no pay penalty for the company attached to them. They are an inefficient use of out time, just not pay time.

Now I'll play "devil's advocate" and give some examples of work rules that are inefficient (from the companies point of view). They are mainly there to force the company to use us while we're at work, and fall under the umbrella of "duty rigs"

1) pay for the greater of actual or scheduled block. The extra time built into the schedules to improve on time preformance (especially at PHL) results in 3-4 hours of pay for 0 block in my average month (called underfly). The purpose it to eliminate any disincentive to save time on a flight - shortcuts, visual approaches, etc. Eliminate this and I suspect most pilots would find a way to eliminate the underfly.

2) minimum pay per hour of duty, per hour from start of trip to end of trip, and pay for deadheading (riding instead of working). These make it inefficient for the company to deadhead us CLT-PHL, work PHL-BOS, & deadhead BOS-PHL-CLT - on the job 7 hours or longer for an hour of pay. Or to work the first day, spend two nites and intervening day at a layover, and work the third day.

These are basically the crews way of saying "Tell us when to come to work and for how long, but while we're there either use us or pay us anyway - your choice."

Jim

 

[MarkMyWords]

Thanks Jim -

You da man!

I guess the point of asking the question was how much of it is an ALPA contract issue and how much of it was an inefficiency in how the company utilizes you.

You've given me a better understanding of the issue of block hours....so do you think the company will be coming after more vacation/sick time? Are there ways to help on the training issue, besides going to one fleet type?

I agree with you 100% on the issue of padded block times and actual pay. Take that provision away and we could have a 25 min taxi in time in PIT before long. LOL

The issue of duty rigs are very complex, but I get the jist of what you are saying. The deadheading issue is one that was brought up before. I honestly view deadheading as another inefficeint means of utilizing your assets. I have seen a trip out of PHL that starts and works PHL-CLT and deadheads home. What the heck is that? Meanwhile there is a CLT crew that starts their day and flies CLT-MCO-PHL and overnights in PHL. What is up with things like that? Deadheading is not that fault of the crews or things in their contracts. Technically you are still at work, even if you are riding, so you should be paid.

So is there a way to improve Pilot block hours without a huge sacrifice on the part of the Pilot group? Or is it just another difference between how the airlines are operated?

 

[BoeingBoy]

MmW,

Training - mandated by FAA so the only way to do anything is simplify the fleet (or outsource parts of it to shift the training cost) other than stop "stirring the pot" so much. By this I mean shifting a little time from here to there with every bid. When time is shifted, some pilots get displaced at the base the time came from (creating training) while other pilots fill the vacancies (creating training) at the base the time goes to. An interesting aside - when DAL has seasonal reductions in international flying, they offer the affected pilots a chance to stay home for 55 hours a month pay. They figure that is cheaper than the training that would be caused by displacing them for a few months.

Something that has been mentioned recently is raising the pay cap from 85 hours to 95 hours. That would, at least in theory, eliminate the gap between us and WN. Only problem (without other changes in the contract) is that we are then paying 95 hours for the 60+ block hours per month while WN is only paying 85 hours for the same block hours, so the cost per block hour is still higher, unless we pay enough less per hour than WN to offset it.

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

MarkMyWords:

You have given a good outline of the "Going Froward Plan" and the company has provided ALPA with more details. If the IAM and/or CWA would meet with the company, they could learn more too.

What's missing? A key component, but if you want to look at a model and what the new contracts could looks like, look no further than Phoenix and America West Airlines.

Forget JetBlue or Southwest, its America West and their transition to a profitable company that will be our new benchmark. Expect more new on this in the not-so-distant future.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[The Mole]

Yea, this idiot believes that folks want surgery.

You can't get your way so you continue with the insults. You are angry because Labor Relations is only following the company policy.

The moderators should send you to the cornfield for your abusive comments.

 

[vasco]

When I viewed Dave's speech, I saw a man grasping at the future with no ability to lead. He repeated himself numerous times. His powerpoint was HOAKIE at best. Yes he outlined a plan, but with the exception of consessions didn't say HOW it was going to be implemented. Comments like "the board is looking at that" etc confirm that. Alot more goes into the 10 cent cost than my paycheck. Things like fuel costs, lease payments, gate costs to name a few. That webcast was embarrassing to say the least. He states US has a great group of employees, he just must think they are all idiots!

 

[mweiss]

In the meantime he's got 11+ cent a seat mile flying.

Jim,

Could you elaborate on that number?

 

[Analyst]

The moderators should send you to the cornfield for your abusive comments.

I 2nd that.

Pitbull to the Cornfield

 

[PITbull]

I agree with you MMW,

However, in light of events that ocurred this week in labor relations with the lack of regard for certain f/as and their being denied certain contractual benefits, I am not advocating one stinking provision give back.

Jerry Glass knows why with his arrogant self and not trusting the words of the employees OVER the MMS dept.

He is the main reason for my left position.

I'm am over this management and so is our group.

 

[scot]

This isnt Survivor or Big Brother so you dont get to vote anyone off. Also please read the notice at the top of the board about reporting suspected postings to the moderators and NOT posting them in the thread.
Thanks for your assistance in this matter.
Scot

 

[PITbull]

LOL... thanks Scott.

They are coming out of the wood work now....

 

[ktflyhome]

What I have found extremely interesting since I first started posting on this Forum, is that there are actually Posters who seem to get their Jollies off on sending folks to the Cornfields. Yet it is these very same Cornfield senders who thrive on the comments and opinions of the very same folks that are sent to eat CORN.

Sounds Like Management to Me. :huh: :blink:

 

[youngblood]

Okay, without even reading all the posts I felt compelled to comment. If I am repeating someone elses post, forgive me.

Yes, Dave outlined some things and in a certain respect gave a very broad view of what "is going to happen". Did anyone miss the fact that 90% of these things have been part of the "plan" so far and not many have been implemented? I don't understand. Common sense tells me that you grab the bull by the horns and fix what the real problem is. ( Non labor costs.) Aside from his threats to gain more concessions, everything else is non labor. I am sorry but I cannot throw away my hard earned dollars to support a management team that has not made a true effort to fix and reevaluate the entire business.

This company has been given the tools to succeed and they haven't. Everyone knew LCC's were becoming a big part of the picture long before this and long before 9/11 happened. Why weren't they considering it then? When Dave rolled into the program, he knew fare structure was a problem and the typical business traveler was fading fast. Why didn't he take care of it then? I could go on and on, but I just don't have the energy. Jim can you back me up on this one?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Youngblood,

I think you've pretty much spelled it out - and seems like all that post here but the usual suspects agree.

I've mentioned before what I told my wife during bankruptcy over a year ago - with what were billed as $1.9 Billion per year in concessions from all the various stakeholders we would either make money hand over fist or we were doomed - because that amount was as much as we had ever lost in a year.

Now we are being asked for concessions of approximately $750 Million per year. Last year we lost about $500 Million. Again, assuming the concessions are forthcoming, we should either make money hand over fist, or be doomed. This time, I think I know where to place my bet.

As you said, many of the things that need to be done on the structural side could have already been done. Why weren't they? Who knows, but they weren't. Just for us pilots, some changes agreed to in the concessions during bankruptch have only just been implemented or are still not implemented. The new reserve system was agreed to over a year ago, but just started last month. The preferential bidding system was agreed to over a year ago but there is no sign that it will be implemented anytime soon. Again, why.

I think the biggest difference of opinion (except for the usual suspects) is not over the past, but the best course of action now that we are where we're at today. And that will be a personal decision made by each of us when it is time to vote on any further concessions.

Jim