Dallas Love Field's Traffic Greatly Increases
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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no AA can't "make money" because the DOT ordered that carriers cannot lease assets at significantly above premium rates. AA can recuperate its costs of maintaining the lease but the lease that WN pays will be used as the benchmark for what other carriers pay and the VX lease is likely related in price ot the WN lease.
and of course you and everyone else want every other carrier except DL to have an interest in DAL but the simple fact is that DL is the only carrier that has consistently shown a willingness to compete against WN and a proven ability to succeed in the marketplace while doing so. B6 can't possibly come up with enough flights to fill two gates worth of flying. VX can't either but they are going to lose a bunch of money trying to compete against WN in the process.
and no one said that DL or any other carrier lies to the DOT>
that is your distorted interpretation... just like so many other subjects that get discussed here. AA didn't bother to tell the DOT that it intended to cut LAX-NRT even though they clearly did.
DL didn't tell the DOT that it would be out of gates at LAX on X date and that it couldn't add a single flight after that point despite the fact that is what you want.
and despite your wishes and those of every other carrier, DL is not backing down from the comeptitiom at DAL or LAX or NYC or LHR or anywhere else.
and when DL is defending its position while AA and UA and other carriers lose it, it is clear why DL is willing to stick it out and fight to remain at DAL.
carry on with your ridiculously stupid argument. You are the one that looks like the fool by your need to distort whatever is said in order to smear someone else.
I do have pity on you. I really do.
Dougie must be very proud of you too.
and specific to this topic, DOT data shows over and over in the new markets that WN started that they have lowered the fares well below what AA and other carriers were getting from DFW and managed to stimulate loads of traffic.
In the ATL market, WN's average fare was almost HALF of what DL was getting a year ago with its 50 seat RJs. Guess what? WN managed to get twice the traffic that DL did but at far lower yields.
WN's strategy for the new markets is the same as it was with MCI and STL - trash the market with low fares, bring passengers over to DAL, and then raise fares after it gets half or more of the market.
There is every reason why AA and DL have no reason to support WN's desire to expand DAL but instead to force WN to share the few gates that DAL has and then push the case as far up the legal chain as possible to keep WN in the smallest possible box.
WN will get 16 gates without legal challenge. period.
and of course you and everyone else want every other carrier except DL to have an interest in DAL but the simple fact is that DL is the only carrier that has consistently shown a willingness to compete against WN and a proven ability to succeed in the marketplace while doing so. B6 can't possibly come up with enough flights to fill two gates worth of flying. VX can't either but they are going to lose a bunch of money trying to compete against WN in the process.
and no one said that DL or any other carrier lies to the DOT>
that is your distorted interpretation... just like so many other subjects that get discussed here. AA didn't bother to tell the DOT that it intended to cut LAX-NRT even though they clearly did.
DL didn't tell the DOT that it would be out of gates at LAX on X date and that it couldn't add a single flight after that point despite the fact that is what you want.
and despite your wishes and those of every other carrier, DL is not backing down from the comeptitiom at DAL or LAX or NYC or LHR or anywhere else.
and when DL is defending its position while AA and UA and other carriers lose it, it is clear why DL is willing to stick it out and fight to remain at DAL.
carry on with your ridiculously stupid argument. You are the one that looks like the fool by your need to distort whatever is said in order to smear someone else.
I do have pity on you. I really do.
Dougie must be very proud of you too.
and specific to this topic, DOT data shows over and over in the new markets that WN started that they have lowered the fares well below what AA and other carriers were getting from DFW and managed to stimulate loads of traffic.
In the ATL market, WN's average fare was almost HALF of what DL was getting a year ago with its 50 seat RJs. Guess what? WN managed to get twice the traffic that DL did but at far lower yields.
WN's strategy for the new markets is the same as it was with MCI and STL - trash the market with low fares, bring passengers over to DAL, and then raise fares after it gets half or more of the market.
There is every reason why AA and DL have no reason to support WN's desire to expand DAL but instead to force WN to share the few gates that DAL has and then push the case as far up the legal chain as possible to keep WN in the smallest possible box.
WN will get 16 gates without legal challenge. period.
FrugalFlyerv2.0
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- Oct 29, 2003
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WorldTraveler said:
Nice spin, but the facts just don't support your narrative.
WorldTraveler said:
Or are you going to claim that it was spectator who wrote that?
But getting back on topic, what evidence do you have that AA is not making money from leasing their DAL gates?
None?
OK, carry on with making up stuff as usual, you already have 0 credibility.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- #49
so... you want to get on topic only AFTER you try to defame someone else and call them a liar?
not quite, son.
you can beat this horse as long as you want. Airlines tell the DOT what they need to.
that is not lying
and AA didn't bother to tell the DOT that it intended to cancel its LAX-NRT service if it won LAX-HND service....
was AA lying or just didn't bother to tell the Whole Truth?
I didn't say that AA wasn't NOT making money on its DAL sub lease... just that they can't gouge the market... the DOT and DOJ both said as part of the VX lease and for what DL has to pay that the lease payments must be related to existing leases. Since WN is the only carrier at DAL that has a lease that went back before the VX entrance to DAL, their lease was based on WN's lease costs and every other lease will be related to that as well.
AA isn't going to get rich on any subleases from its DAL gates... and the negative revenue impact to AA's operation at DFW is far larger than any gate lease could generate.
The best thing that AA can hope for is that DL WILL win access to as much of the gates at DAL as possible so that WN's undercutting fares in the name of creating demand will stop.
Despite what you seem to think, AA is run by more rational people who understand who they want to compete against - and AA would rather compete against DL than WN.
DL's average fares from DFW and DAL are far closer to AA's at DFW than WN's in the same markets from DAL.
not quite, son.
you can beat this horse as long as you want. Airlines tell the DOT what they need to.
that is not lying
and AA didn't bother to tell the DOT that it intended to cancel its LAX-NRT service if it won LAX-HND service....
was AA lying or just didn't bother to tell the Whole Truth?
I didn't say that AA wasn't NOT making money on its DAL sub lease... just that they can't gouge the market... the DOT and DOJ both said as part of the VX lease and for what DL has to pay that the lease payments must be related to existing leases. Since WN is the only carrier at DAL that has a lease that went back before the VX entrance to DAL, their lease was based on WN's lease costs and every other lease will be related to that as well.
AA isn't going to get rich on any subleases from its DAL gates... and the negative revenue impact to AA's operation at DFW is far larger than any gate lease could generate.
The best thing that AA can hope for is that DL WILL win access to as much of the gates at DAL as possible so that WN's undercutting fares in the name of creating demand will stop.
Despite what you seem to think, AA is run by more rational people who understand who they want to compete against - and AA would rather compete against DL than WN.
DL's average fares from DFW and DAL are far closer to AA's at DFW than WN's in the same markets from DAL.
FrugalFlyerv2.0
Veteran
- Oct 29, 2003
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WorldTraveler said:
Listen son,
I'm gonna put it this way, hopefully you will have the mental horsepower to grasp it.
To paraphrase Pontius Pilot: what you have written, you have written.
And here it is, the Whole Truth:
WorldTraveler said:
Furthermore, your parroting about AA and LAX, is not only off topic, but also speculation on your part.
Spin away!
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #51
Looks like the spin master is trying to shovel out of something again, typical.
looks like he has also FINALLY got 2 items cleared that I have been telling him for months, 1-It will be the COD that will have to accommodate or not accommodate not SWA. 2-That IF, yes that stills says IF Delta is allowed to stay at Love Field, they will more than likely be leasing from one of Virgins gates NOT out of SWA's gates. Finally came to his senses. But we are all still awaiting to see if Delta will even remain at Love Field, but, with the realignment of some flights by Virgin, pretty sure they will have a better chance of staying now, by the skin of their teeth once again, they might be allowed to keep those little ole 5 flights to Atlanta...
looks like he has also FINALLY got 2 items cleared that I have been telling him for months, 1-It will be the COD that will have to accommodate or not accommodate not SWA. 2-That IF, yes that stills says IF Delta is allowed to stay at Love Field, they will more than likely be leasing from one of Virgins gates NOT out of SWA's gates. Finally came to his senses. But we are all still awaiting to see if Delta will even remain at Love Field, but, with the realignment of some flights by Virgin, pretty sure they will have a better chance of staying now, by the skin of their teeth once again, they might be allowed to keep those little ole 5 flights to Atlanta...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- Banned
- #52
well, well, well.
look who decided to jump in for the pile on.
some AA fankid can't stand that his arguments have been thrown back in his own face.... AA did just as good of a job of failing to tell the whole truth as any one else.
and specific to this thread, AA didn't even value a presence at DAL while DL did.
Given the impact that WN has had on the WN market - which a very few of us on here recognized while others tried to say otherwise - DL made the decision to stick around and fight WN on its home court.
DAL doesn't operate gates; WN and VX does. There are two choices as to which airline will accommodate DL.
WN has no legal protection for any gates above 16.
WN's most rabid mechanic can argue all he wants about DL "by the skin of its teeth" staying which simply means that WN will be opening its gates for DL and will have to figure out how to make the schedule it has published work.
and if it can't make it work, WN will have to cancel flights.
DL isn't going anywhere from DAL.
if WN really was on solid ground to say no, the case would have been settled a long time ago.
as much as WN's most rabid mechanic wants to say otherwise, NO ONE wants to see WN grow to have 95% of the seats at DAL and EVERYONE is doing everything to force WN to have to accommodate DL.
that is exactly what VX is doing.
look who decided to jump in for the pile on.
some AA fankid can't stand that his arguments have been thrown back in his own face.... AA did just as good of a job of failing to tell the whole truth as any one else.
and specific to this thread, AA didn't even value a presence at DAL while DL did.
Given the impact that WN has had on the WN market - which a very few of us on here recognized while others tried to say otherwise - DL made the decision to stick around and fight WN on its home court.
DAL doesn't operate gates; WN and VX does. There are two choices as to which airline will accommodate DL.
WN has no legal protection for any gates above 16.
WN's most rabid mechanic can argue all he wants about DL "by the skin of its teeth" staying which simply means that WN will be opening its gates for DL and will have to figure out how to make the schedule it has published work.
and if it can't make it work, WN will have to cancel flights.
DL isn't going anywhere from DAL.
if WN really was on solid ground to say no, the case would have been settled a long time ago.
as much as WN's most rabid mechanic wants to say otherwise, NO ONE wants to see WN grow to have 95% of the seats at DAL and EVERYONE is doing everything to force WN to have to accommodate DL.
that is exactly what VX is doing.
No it wouldn't.
The process is playing out just as the law, the Love Field Competition Plan and the Love Field leases say it should.
No one will be forced to do anything until there is gate usage of 10 flts a day per gate by the preferential gate lease holders.
That will be in Aug for WN.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- Banned
- #54
The DOT already said that DL's request for access had priority over WN's growth which was announced AFTER DL operated its service.
feel free to hang onto your notion that WN will succeed at pushing DL out but the DOT itself said long before WN even announced its post-Wright schedules that non-lease holding airlines have to be accommodated to operate the same schedule they currently have.
DAL, at WN's urging, chose NOT to include common use gates at DAL so that WN could acquire as many gates as possible and then dominate them.
problem is that DL operated its current schedule - just on smaller aircraft - before the WA went away and before any other carrier at DAL started, let alone announced their schedule.
WN will in one way succeed at acquiring gates and filling them up and then argue that they can push DL out because they filled up the gates.
WN will lose this one. Can't say I blame them for trying.
feel free to hang onto your notion that WN will succeed at pushing DL out but the DOT itself said long before WN even announced its post-Wright schedules that non-lease holding airlines have to be accommodated to operate the same schedule they currently have.
DAL, at WN's urging, chose NOT to include common use gates at DAL so that WN could acquire as many gates as possible and then dominate them.
problem is that DL operated its current schedule - just on smaller aircraft - before the WA went away and before any other carrier at DAL started, let alone announced their schedule.
WN will in one way succeed at acquiring gates and filling them up and then argue that they can push DL out because they filled up the gates.
WN will lose this one. Can't say I blame them for trying.
FrugalFlyerv2.0
Veteran
- Oct 29, 2003
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WorldTraveler said:
some dreamer of DL grandeur can't stand the fact that he has been caught making up stuff, lying once again
Just so that there is no doubt - here it is in all its glory:
WorldTraveler said:
I can keep on re-pasting your works of art for all to see your full mental horsepower on display
Oh and please, for everybody to see, where has AA lied to the DOT - why don't you provide specific examples, you know, kind of like the ones you claim is the standard for DL.
Speaking of presence in the N.TX market, you do grasp the little known fact that DL was forced to tuck it's tail between its legs and run out of DFW.
Ouch!
Oh yeah, and before I forget: 'mighty' DL desperately needs to maintain its teeny tiny presence at DAL because lets face reality - DL is #3 , a distant #3 in the N.TX market, a niche carrier, if you will. And, since a certain dreamer of DL grandeur has been spewing on these boards for years, the #3 is doomed!!!
Hence the fear fear fear fear and clutching of pearls as the day that DL is done in N.TX draws potentially closer and closer.
Spin away!
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #56
you're really feeling boxed in today, aren't you?
can't stand the fact that DL stuck it out at DAL and isn't going away while AA thought that WN would be no big deal at DAL - and has now been found to be very wrong.
you are a pitiful little man, cheapass passenger.
Why don't learn to live in a world where not everyone is going to blow cool breezes up your skirt to make you feel good?
can't stand the fact that DL stuck it out at DAL and isn't going away while AA thought that WN would be no big deal at DAL - and has now been found to be very wrong.
you are a pitiful little man, cheapass passenger.
Why don't learn to live in a world where not everyone is going to blow cool breezes up your skirt to make you feel good?
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