CWA members...How can you say Yes
- Thread starter DaWoo
- Start date
Severed-N-Happy
Senior
- Dec 21, 2002
- 395
- 0
[blockquote]
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On 12/27/2002 3:41:38 PM mrplanes wrote:
Hey Wilma:
Just remember that if it goes down, the management that got it to that point will continue to make enormous sums of money somewhere else while the employees will be lucky to find something that is even close to what they were making.
mr
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[/blockquote]
You sure about this?? What company that is still afloat in today's economy is hiring outside mgmt off the street at 6 figures with multi figure perks? Especially if their past track record is of, or associated with, mega-failure?Unless they have a self destructive wish to do the same?
UM and all the other top dogs stand to suffer in their own way, they already have to some degree I'm sure.Dignity and pride may not pay the bills but it beats being a whore to the company's non stop guillotine and demands.
Severed,happy,and smiling....to the bank that is.
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On 12/27/2002 3:41:38 PM mrplanes wrote:
Hey Wilma:
Just remember that if it goes down, the management that got it to that point will continue to make enormous sums of money somewhere else while the employees will be lucky to find something that is even close to what they were making.
mr
----------------
[/blockquote]
You sure about this?? What company that is still afloat in today's economy is hiring outside mgmt off the street at 6 figures with multi figure perks? Especially if their past track record is of, or associated with, mega-failure?Unless they have a self destructive wish to do the same?
UM and all the other top dogs stand to suffer in their own way, they already have to some degree I'm sure.Dignity and pride may not pay the bills but it beats being a whore to the company's non stop guillotine and demands.
Severed,happy,and smiling....to the bank that is.
Severed-N-Happy
Senior
- Dec 21, 2002
- 395
- 0
[blockquote]
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On 12/27/2002 4:41:29 PM RES87rno wrote:
Wait a minute, are you saying that there is a remote possibility that we will NOT get our severance pay? Can they really do that? I am counting on that severance.
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[/blockquote]
There is nothing in the original 1999 contract or the 2 revisions made this year that mention forfeiture of severance, other than if you become part of MDA, which is the better part of US anyways if the future pans out as they expect it to.
On the other hand since a union contract is essentially not binding any more per managements latest round of threats of abrogation, that and having a judge in their back pocket could lead to failure of US to have to pay benefits. If you hear one gunshot or see one platoon be activated, it's over. HI JUDGE, THANKS JUDGE,SEE YOU ON THE LINKS JUDGE, BYE JUDGE!
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On 12/27/2002 4:41:29 PM RES87rno wrote:
Wait a minute, are you saying that there is a remote possibility that we will NOT get our severance pay? Can they really do that? I am counting on that severance.
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[/blockquote]
There is nothing in the original 1999 contract or the 2 revisions made this year that mention forfeiture of severance, other than if you become part of MDA, which is the better part of US anyways if the future pans out as they expect it to.
On the other hand since a union contract is essentially not binding any more per managements latest round of threats of abrogation, that and having a judge in their back pocket could lead to failure of US to have to pay benefits. If you hear one gunshot or see one platoon be activated, it's over. HI JUDGE, THANKS JUDGE,SEE YOU ON THE LINKS JUDGE, BYE JUDGE!
I'm voting no!!!!
It's amazing how little confidence some people have in themselves. We have been dealing with the public for years, we have computer skills, add these to whatever other skills you may have and you'll be surprised at how marketable we are. Have confidence in yourselves there are other jobs aot there.
It's amazing how little confidence some people have in themselves. We have been dealing with the public for years, we have computer skills, add these to whatever other skills you may have and you'll be surprised at how marketable we are. Have confidence in yourselves there are other jobs aot there.
It's not that simple. Tucked away in the fleet and CWA language is , in the event of introduction of ground troops, or the sustained aerial bombardment outside of the no-fly zone, in Iraq, we can be separated from the company without severance. The language is so broad, I'm not sure you'd even have recall rights.[BR][BR]As hostilities are imminent, I'd wager most agents will never see severance pay.[BR][BR]Moreover, force majuere is alive and well. Now you know why the company was insistent - in fact, it was a deal breaker - that ALL unions on the property drop their force majuere grievances. The 'guarantee' of 279 a/c will disappear like dust in the wind.[BR][BR]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[BR][BR]
[P]Thanks for the wake up call to the sleepers out there.[BR][BR]Also tucked away in the other latest union agreements as well. Voting for ones severance no longer applies. Voting to accept does not guarantee your severance, paying union dues has become an even bigger waste of money than it already is. This company has been doing whatever is necessary to continue to exist. If say, going down to 50 mainline A/C is the answer, then so be it, it will be accomplished. This round of votes will separate the people who believe this company will survive and those who believe it's all over. All bets are off. The people who are retirement age in the IAM having made their 85 points years ago that are planning on being here j-u-s-t a few more years, well we know how they are voting don't we. [/P][FONT size=2][/FONT]
[P]Thanks for the wake up call to the sleepers out there.[BR][BR]Also tucked away in the other latest union agreements as well. Voting for ones severance no longer applies. Voting to accept does not guarantee your severance, paying union dues has become an even bigger waste of money than it already is. This company has been doing whatever is necessary to continue to exist. If say, going down to 50 mainline A/C is the answer, then so be it, it will be accomplished. This round of votes will separate the people who believe this company will survive and those who believe it's all over. All bets are off. The people who are retirement age in the IAM having made their 85 points years ago that are planning on being here j-u-s-t a few more years, well we know how they are voting don't we. [/P][FONT size=2][/FONT]
Severed-N-Happy
Senior
- Dec 21, 2002
- 395
- 0
[blockquote]
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On 12/27/2002 6:22:02 PM bagosh wrote:
I'm voting no!!!!
It's amazing how little confidence some people have in themselves. We have been dealing with the public for years, we have computer skills, add these to whatever other skills you may have and you'll be surprised at how marketable we are. Have confidence in yourselves there are other jobs aot there.
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[/blockquote]
The 9 to 13 an hour Dave is shooting for in CS ,and he will indeed get it down to that within the next 6-12 months guaranteed, is easily attainable elsewhere(if that is where you choose to seek alternate employment), but without the Gustapo.
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On 12/27/2002 6:22:02 PM bagosh wrote:
I'm voting no!!!!
It's amazing how little confidence some people have in themselves. We have been dealing with the public for years, we have computer skills, add these to whatever other skills you may have and you'll be surprised at how marketable we are. Have confidence in yourselves there are other jobs aot there.
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[/blockquote]
The 9 to 13 an hour Dave is shooting for in CS ,and he will indeed get it down to that within the next 6-12 months guaranteed, is easily attainable elsewhere(if that is where you choose to seek alternate employment), but without the Gustapo.
BuccaneerBill
Newbie
- Nov 25, 2002
- 10
- 0
I was with USAIRWAYS all through the 90*s when we gave back to the company for nearly a decade. I also voted "YES" for the last concession package.
But now, I must vote "NO!"
The company is putting an economic "GUN" to our heads to eliminate jobs and also to help fund programs for those above us!
The company "IS NOT"going to fold with these no votes....at least not before going before the bankruptcy judge. I think that I will take my chances in court and hope the judge judges more equally than our company has judged and respected us!
VOTE...."NO!!!"
But now, I must vote "NO!"
The company is putting an economic "GUN" to our heads to eliminate jobs and also to help fund programs for those above us!
The company "IS NOT"going to fold with these no votes....at least not before going before the bankruptcy judge. I think that I will take my chances in court and hope the judge judges more equally than our company has judged and respected us!
VOTE...."NO!!!"
cubfan02us
Member
- Sep 10, 2002
- 93
- 0
U is like a patient on the operating table undergoing
open heart surgery.Everybody is scrubbed up for this one.
Management,unions,investors,politicians,and the government.
One slip of the scalpel and this patient will die on the
table.In other words everything has to go right or it's
curtains.
Oh and another thing, U is an organ donor.Delta,CAL,AMR,
NWA, and the others would gladly accept the parts...
open heart surgery.Everybody is scrubbed up for this one.
Management,unions,investors,politicians,and the government.
One slip of the scalpel and this patient will die on the
table.In other words everything has to go right or it's
curtains.
Oh and another thing, U is an organ donor.Delta,CAL,AMR,
NWA, and the others would gladly accept the parts...
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #26
Even after all these posts,,, It is still NO NO NO more for me Dave. I have given wages and benefits for years now.... Sorry, can't take it anymore. I strongly believe USAirways will not make it till spring and further more the job will never be what is once was. 13.00 per hour, not a chance for me. There are jobs out there that pay that much with benefits without the stress. I have had enough of Jerry Glass and Davey boy telling me I am worthless. Close the doors boys!!! I could care less....oh and yes I am prepared for it, unlike many I have not had my head in the sand thinking U was going to keep me working. Vote as you see fit, I am betting it goes through as a YES vote, but it won't be because I voted yes. No doubt Uncle George is taking us to war and thats another 5 percent off. If we go to war the company can do what it likes, READ your contract, just like the Prego, Its in there !!!.
Everyone has mixed feelings, Everyone gets to make his or her own choice.
Make yours and be prepared for the worst... Dave will be back for more.
Everyone has mixed feelings, Everyone gets to make his or her own choice.
Make yours and be prepared for the worst... Dave will be back for more.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
[blockquote]
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On 12/27/2002 6:22:02 PM bagosh wrote:
I'm voting no!!!!
It's amazing how little confidence some people have in themselves. We have been dealing with the public for years, we have computer skills, add these to whatever other skills you may have and you'll be surprised at how marketable we are. Have confidence in yourselves there are other jobs aot there.
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[/blockquote]
I've got news for you. Data entry IS NOT considered computer skills (at least by companies involved in REAL computer work). Don't believe me, just look at today's employment section. While I agree there is NO GUARANTEE of anything in this life, there is a MUCH GREATER chance (like 1000%) of getting severance and furlough pay for a YES vote than if the company folds due to NO votes. Employees are way at the end of any creditor list for bankruptcy. Dave and the execs will be paid long before the average employee sees a nickle, including your last paycheck (or any other money the company owes you). That's the fact!
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On 12/27/2002 6:22:02 PM bagosh wrote:
I'm voting no!!!!
It's amazing how little confidence some people have in themselves. We have been dealing with the public for years, we have computer skills, add these to whatever other skills you may have and you'll be surprised at how marketable we are. Have confidence in yourselves there are other jobs aot there.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I've got news for you. Data entry IS NOT considered computer skills (at least by companies involved in REAL computer work). Don't believe me, just look at today's employment section. While I agree there is NO GUARANTEE of anything in this life, there is a MUCH GREATER chance (like 1000%) of getting severance and furlough pay for a YES vote than if the company folds due to NO votes. Employees are way at the end of any creditor list for bankruptcy. Dave and the execs will be paid long before the average employee sees a nickle, including your last paycheck (or any other money the company owes you). That's the fact!
BuccaneerBill
Newbie
- Nov 25, 2002
- 10
- 0
I agree with bagosh....
Of course no one expects to go elsewhere and start off making top dollar. However, there are other futures out there. The sun will come up tomorrow. The end of USAIRWAYS would not be the end of the world, especially for those of us considered at the bottom
by our corporate "misleaders."
The best scenario would be for USAIRWAYS to survive and be a good place to work. However, that "IS NOT" the direction the company is going as far as CWA workers are concerned. They want to give our jobs to others and put many, many more of us out of work.
I believe that we need to show solidarity in our commitment tolimit the number of our fellow workers that are thrown overboard so those above us can keep their out-of-proportionate salaries in relation to our so-called low cost competitors.
I realize that a vote either way, yes or no, means the loss of more jobs. However, a yes vote paves a worse path than a no vote because of the many work rule changes.
I voted "yes" for the last concessions, relunctantly as the CWA*ers gave back tothe company 450 million dollars. I must vote "NO" this time. I truley believe that is the best opportunity for us at our level of the totem pole. A "YES" vote by CWA*ers is a vote to throw more of your fellow workers overboard and keep your fingers crossed that you and your station survive the radical restructuring.
Sorry, to be so long winded. Just had to get that off my chest.
GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!!
Of course no one expects to go elsewhere and start off making top dollar. However, there are other futures out there. The sun will come up tomorrow. The end of USAIRWAYS would not be the end of the world, especially for those of us considered at the bottom
by our corporate "misleaders."
The best scenario would be for USAIRWAYS to survive and be a good place to work. However, that "IS NOT" the direction the company is going as far as CWA workers are concerned. They want to give our jobs to others and put many, many more of us out of work.
I believe that we need to show solidarity in our commitment tolimit the number of our fellow workers that are thrown overboard so those above us can keep their out-of-proportionate salaries in relation to our so-called low cost competitors.
I realize that a vote either way, yes or no, means the loss of more jobs. However, a yes vote paves a worse path than a no vote because of the many work rule changes.
I voted "yes" for the last concessions, relunctantly as the CWA*ers gave back tothe company 450 million dollars. I must vote "NO" this time. I truley believe that is the best opportunity for us at our level of the totem pole. A "YES" vote by CWA*ers is a vote to throw more of your fellow workers overboard and keep your fingers crossed that you and your station survive the radical restructuring.
Sorry, to be so long winded. Just had to get that off my chest.
GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!!
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/29/2002 10:15:59 AM BuccaneerBill wrote:
[P]I agree with bagosh....[BR]Of course no one expects to go elsewhere and start off making top dollar. However, there are other futures out there. The sun will come up tomorrow. The end of USAIRWAYS would not be the end of the world, especially for those of us considered at the bottom [BR]by our corporate "misleaders."[BR]The best scenario would be for USAIRWAYS to survive and be a good place to work. However, that "IS NOT" the direction the company is going as far as CWA workers are concerned. They want to give our jobs to others and put many, many more of us out of work.[BR]I believe that we need to show solidarity in our commitment tolimit the number of our fellow workers that are thrown overboard so those above us can keep their out-of-proportionate salaries in relation to our so-called low cost competitors.[BR]I realize that a vote either way, yes or no, means the loss of more jobs. However, a yes vote paves a worse path than a no vote because of the many work rule changes.[BR]I voted "yes" for the last concessions, relunctantly as the CWA*ers gave back tothe company 450 million dollars. I must vote "NO" this time. I truley believe that is the best opportunity for us at our level of the totem pole. A "YES" vote by CWA*ers is a vote to throw more of your fellow workers overboard and keep your fingers crossed that you and your station survive the radical restructuring.[BR]Sorry, to be so long winded. Just had to get that off my chest.[BR]GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!![BR][BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]You said it right....GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!! If you think you've got skills by checking in passengers and baggage you've got another thing coming. Those so called "Computer Skills" will get you nothing but a menial job making 7 or 8 bucks an hour. Seems you should be more upset with the CWA Local Presidents who got their tailed handed to them because they have no idea how to negotiate. Just imagine....they were doing the same jobs all of you were doing until they got elected local president. You want to trust them to do your negotiating against people who specialize in it for their bread and butter? You've got no one to blame but the people you voted for.
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/29/2002 10:15:59 AM BuccaneerBill wrote:
[P]I agree with bagosh....[BR]Of course no one expects to go elsewhere and start off making top dollar. However, there are other futures out there. The sun will come up tomorrow. The end of USAIRWAYS would not be the end of the world, especially for those of us considered at the bottom [BR]by our corporate "misleaders."[BR]The best scenario would be for USAIRWAYS to survive and be a good place to work. However, that "IS NOT" the direction the company is going as far as CWA workers are concerned. They want to give our jobs to others and put many, many more of us out of work.[BR]I believe that we need to show solidarity in our commitment tolimit the number of our fellow workers that are thrown overboard so those above us can keep their out-of-proportionate salaries in relation to our so-called low cost competitors.[BR]I realize that a vote either way, yes or no, means the loss of more jobs. However, a yes vote paves a worse path than a no vote because of the many work rule changes.[BR]I voted "yes" for the last concessions, relunctantly as the CWA*ers gave back tothe company 450 million dollars. I must vote "NO" this time. I truley believe that is the best opportunity for us at our level of the totem pole. A "YES" vote by CWA*ers is a vote to throw more of your fellow workers overboard and keep your fingers crossed that you and your station survive the radical restructuring.[BR]Sorry, to be so long winded. Just had to get that off my chest.[BR]GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!![BR][BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]You said it right....GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!! If you think you've got skills by checking in passengers and baggage you've got another thing coming. Those so called "Computer Skills" will get you nothing but a menial job making 7 or 8 bucks an hour. Seems you should be more upset with the CWA Local Presidents who got their tailed handed to them because they have no idea how to negotiate. Just imagine....they were doing the same jobs all of you were doing until they got elected local president. You want to trust them to do your negotiating against people who specialize in it for their bread and butter? You've got no one to blame but the people you voted for.
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/29/2002 9:33:32 AM BuccaneerBill wrote:
[P][BR]I was with USAIRWAYS all through the 90*s when we gave back to the company for nearly a decade. I also voted "YES" for the last concession package.[BR]But now, I must vote "NO!"[BR]The company is putting an economic "GUN" to our heads to eliminate jobs and also to help fund programs for those above us![BR]The company "IS NOT"going to fold with these no votes....at least not before going before the bankruptcy judge. I think that I will take my chances in court and hope the judge judges more equally than our company has judged and respected us![BR]VOTE...."NO!!!" [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]Unfortunately Buc....it'll never get to the judge. I'm no BK attorney but the way I understand it is the only way the judge would make any decisions like this is if the company rejected your contract which it has chosen not to do. Your no vote "WILL" send the company to Chapter 7 if a majority of you vote no. That's a cold hard reality. Make sure you are fully informed of what the realities will be before you vote and then cast the vote you feel is best for you and your family. If you choose to move beyond U then fine but don't vote no and mess it up for people who are perfectly willing to accept the concessions as the union negotiated. It's much easier to find a job when you have one even if it's paying less money. Just my observation.
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/29/2002 9:33:32 AM BuccaneerBill wrote:
[P][BR]I was with USAIRWAYS all through the 90*s when we gave back to the company for nearly a decade. I also voted "YES" for the last concession package.[BR]But now, I must vote "NO!"[BR]The company is putting an economic "GUN" to our heads to eliminate jobs and also to help fund programs for those above us![BR]The company "IS NOT"going to fold with these no votes....at least not before going before the bankruptcy judge. I think that I will take my chances in court and hope the judge judges more equally than our company has judged and respected us![BR]VOTE...."NO!!!" [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]Unfortunately Buc....it'll never get to the judge. I'm no BK attorney but the way I understand it is the only way the judge would make any decisions like this is if the company rejected your contract which it has chosen not to do. Your no vote "WILL" send the company to Chapter 7 if a majority of you vote no. That's a cold hard reality. Make sure you are fully informed of what the realities will be before you vote and then cast the vote you feel is best for you and your family. If you choose to move beyond U then fine but don't vote no and mess it up for people who are perfectly willing to accept the concessions as the union negotiated. It's much easier to find a job when you have one even if it's paying less money. Just my observation.
