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Charlie_Tuna

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Sep 29, 2005
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07-02-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote: B757200ERl
"As for ALPA, don't count on them for any legal, financial or political support whatsoever. You and your pilot group will be on your own, trust me. I have first-hand experience with that."

RedEyE :
Correct........ALPA National will not take sides in a Merger between 2 ALPA represented Pilot groups that are merging....It would be a Conflict of Interest.....Just look at USAir (AAA) and former AmericaWest. It is and will be between the 2 merging MECs and the Arbitrator.

The Furloughed USAir Pilots with Dates of Hire back to 1987....(in my opinion)will not be Senior to an America WEST Capt with a 1989 Date of hire.

Almost all ALPA to ALPA mergers go to a nuetral Arbitrators.......Both sides present their cases to the Arbitrator and make their arguments and present their merger formulas. The Nuetral Arbitrator makes a binding decision on how the merger integration goes...............it becomes LAW.
Then both former groups sit in the cockpits of merged airframes and argue/B*tch for the rest of their careers on how they each got Scr**ed by the other side. Often there are some pretty hard feelings that only go away with retirement. Been down that road.....................

If a NON-ALPA carrier merges with a ALPA represented carrier, then ALPA National will provide all the Legal assistance needed.

TWA and AMR is one example where that did not really happen. There are many stories as to why. I do not know myself as I was not involved. I was told it was due to the fact that with TWA in Bankruptcy, the TWA Pilots had to make a choice. Take their chances with the company's survival on it's own..........or take a agree to void their contracts SCOPE/Successorship clause and take their chances with APA doing a fair integration.
Fair is in the eyes of the beholder. I have no dog in that fight, but Almost all of the Former TWA pilots are furloughed or close to it.
__________________
RedEyE


Of interest a combined UA/CAL seniority list by straight DOH/DOB someone put together in Excel file.

List
 
Charlie_Tuna said:
If a NON-ALPA carrier merges with a ALPA represented carrier, then ALPA National will provide all the Legal assistance needed. TWA and AMR is one example where that did not really happen. There are many stories as to why.
Click to expand...
Here's a good reason: ALPA was actively recruiting the APA to rejoin. Makes good sense to sell-out 2300 TWAers in favor of 10,000 highly-paid (at the time) AA pilots. There's an even more sinister picture as well. Big Airline Gobbles-Up Smaller, Financially Weak Competitor. The Big Five MECs (UAL/DAL/USA/CAL/NWA) were thinking about their own mergers and possible future mergers and didn't want any bad precedents set. Thus, the TWA MEC received very little support from them. The weak are sold-out. Nothing personal, just business.

Now in the case of USA/AWA none of this tomfoolery took place since ALPA Merger Policy was allowed to proceed without interference. Many may not like the result but the process was as fair as can be had.
 
Charlie_Tuna said:
Quote

TWA and AMR is one example where that did not really happen. There are many stories as to why. I do not know myself as I was not involved. I was told it was due to the fact that with TWA in Bankruptcy, the TWA Pilots had to make a choice. Take their chances with the company's survival on it's ownList
Click to expand...

Is it not possible for anyone on these boards--including AA employees--to get their facts straight? TWA was NOT in bankruptcy. As a matter of fact, they were in about the same financial shape as America West at the time. The company's choice--and by extension, the employees' choice--was to take a government loan, as AW did, or to go with an offer from a larger airline that promised that everyone would be treated fairly.

The bankruptcy was simply a pro forma trip through the courts--at AMR's insistence--to eliminate the Karaboo (sp?) agreement with Icahn and to abrogate some a/c leases.

Think about it this way...If TWA had decided to take a government loan instead and had gone into bankruptcy after 9/11 to shed the Icahn agreement, who's to say it might have been TWA who ended up buying/merging/acquiring (choose your own verb) US Airways? At least, their unions had a long tradition of treating acquired union employees fairly.
 
jimntx said:
As a matter of fact, they were in about the same financial shape as America West at the time.
Click to expand...
I know you're on my side but that statement is a stretch. AWA had no impending liquidity issues and nobody was even speculating we were close to filing for bankruptcy.
 
IMisstheAladdinTrays said:
You prove me wrong!
Click to expand...
I don't have to! This is like me stating that Iceland fell off of Mars, you stating I'm wrong, and me demanding you prove that Iceland didn't fall from Mars. Silliness. But if you are actually interested in facts rather than your foolish pride just research the SEC filings and financial-industry reports yourself. Airline bankruptcies don't sneak-up on anybody.
 
exB717Flyer said:
I don't have to! This is like me stating that Iceland fell off of Mars, you stating I'm wrong, and me demanding you prove that Iceland didn't fall from Mars. Silliness. But if you are actually interested in facts rather than your foolish pride just research the SEC filings and financial-industry reports yourself. Airline bankruptcies don't sneak-up on anybody.
Click to expand...
You are right about that! Doug and company knew what was coming, and they found a way to cut it off at the pass... so to speak. weather any of you choose to accept the fact that BK was a coming is your own business. How do you know Iceland didn't fall off mars?
 
exB717Flyer said:
I don't have to! This is like me stating that Iceland fell off of Mars, you stating I'm wrong, and me demanding you prove that Iceland didn't fall from Mars. Silliness. But if you are actually interested in facts rather than your foolish pride just research the SEC filings and financial-industry reports yourself. Airline bankruptcies don't sneak-up on anybody.
Click to expand...

Neil Armstrong's biography spends about two pages talking about his amazement with the hoax conspiracy crowd. Their typical attack was to demand that Neil prove he went to the moon. There's always a very small percentage hell bent on not believing the obvious.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #13
jimntx said:
Is it not possible for anyone on these boards--including AA employees--to get their facts straight? TWA was NOT in bankruptcy.
Click to expand...
If that is true I apologize I only cut and pasted someone elses post.
 
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