Crude Settles at Lowest Level Since 2005

[Bob Owens]

...not a justification. Just a way of showing that, like line employees, execs and other management employees are underpaid relative to their peers.

First of all , like management always tells us, you cant compare what other people in other industries make with what the same type of people make in this industry. The peer group for AMR executives is other airline executives, not Home Depot Executives.

Stock price growth is not a true indicator of company performance, stock price increases like we see at AMR are primarily driven by speculation.

Besides, unlike AMR, Home Depot has performed well as a company, they have a market cap of $81.2 billion compared to AMRs $7.1B,HDs PE was 13.6, AMR was "NA", HD had $90 Billion in sales vs AMRs $22billion, and HD had a profit of $6 billion vs AMRs $390 million loss. So when you consider that HD is profitable and has nearly four times the sales that AMR has, along with a substantial profit, and how long HD been around compared to AMR I would say that Home Depots growth has been nothing less than phenominal.I'm sure that those who bought HD stock twenty years ago or whenever they first came out did a hell of a lot better than those who bought AMR stock the same year.

So, you got what you negotiated, and the people hired before you got what they negotiated. It doesn't get any fairer than that.

So are you are claiming that a lone worker who needs to put food on the table sits on a level playing field with a multibillion dollar corporation, which is usually a collective of investors capital, that has thousands of workers doing the same job? If so thats rediculous, and you are a fool.

Or are you trying to say that unfair is as fair as it gets?

The fact is it does get fairer than that, workers combine their labor levergage through unions just as investors combine their capital leverage through corporations and then negotiate a price, and thats as fair as it gets.

 

[Bagbelt]

I was making more than guys who were there 4-5 years and bled orange. I liked working there, but I thought it was deeply insulting to others so I learned to keep my mouth shut. It seems strange that the best way to make more money at a place would be to quit and then reapply at a different store for more money. A lot of the best guys left to work for Lowes.

 

[eolesen]

It seems strange that the best way to make more money at a place would be to quit and then reapply at a different store for more money. A lot of the best guys left to work for Lowes.

Exactly -- that's how free market labor works. Instead of being handcuffed to the contract and seniority, they had a way of being able to effectively receive more for their skills.

When I worked at HD, Lowes was just entering the DFW market, and was recruiting HD people pretty heavily. The store managers had the latitude to give raises, and more than a few of the long-timers got raises to stay put. A few others jumped ship. That's how it works in the free market.


Bob laments on how unfair it is for people to have to negotiate on their own...

We had a master carpenter hired in at the same time I was hired, and at twice the rate the other new-hires were earning. And rightfully so. With 25 years experience as a tradesman, he's going to know more about what he's selling people than some of the store managers do, and he shouldn't be forced to start out at the same rate some 18 year old kid would be earning.

With a union contract, he'd be "equalized" with the other kids, and start out at the bottom rung.

The guy who manages to push $2K-5K in sales per weekend (not unheard of in some departments) shouldn't be given the same raise as a guy who can't even sell a 12 pack of hose washers. Yet with a union contract, they'd receive equal raises.

It's pretty easy to see how places like Home Depot and Lowes avoid any attempts to unionize. The other factor is that (like Jetblue) so many people come to work there from union environments, and want nothing to do with a union ever again.

 

[whlinder]

You never know what you are worth until you find another job. Then your company either lets you walk or finds a way to keep you.

 

[Bagbelt]

Every union job I've ever had has provided better benefits and pay than any non union job I've had. It would be different in the world of professions with advanced degrees. But as far as a guy turning a wrench, it is a nesscessary evil to have a contract. I see abuse of it all the time, but the good outweighs the bad.

 

[Bob Owens]

Exactly -- that's how free market labor works. Instead of being handcuffed to the contract and seniority, they had a way of being able to effectively receive more for their skills.

If contracts are such a burden why do most executives seek to have contracts for themselves?

When I worked at HD, Lowes was just entering the DFW market, and was recruiting HD people pretty heavily. The store managers had the latitude to give raises, and more than a few of the long-timers got raises to stay put. A few others jumped ship. That's how it works in the free market.

Even with their raises it probably still wasnt a job that they could live off of without some other source of income.

Bob laments on how unfair it is for people to have to negotiate on their own...

We had a master carpenter hired in at the same time I was hired, and at twice the rate the other new-hires were earning. And rightfully so. With 25 years experience as a tradesman, he's going to know more about what he's selling people than some of the store managers do, and he shouldn't be forced to start out at the same rate some 18 year old kid would be earning.

And where is that carpenter now? They did the same thing here in NY when they first opened, however after a few years they dumped all the high paid craftsmen.

With a union contract, he'd be "equalized" with the other kids, and start out at the bottom rung.

So instead he was likely fired because he could be replaced by a cheaper worker.

 

[eolesen]

Even with their raises it probably still wasnt a job that they could live off of without some other source of income.

$20/hr is only a buck or two less than what a topped out gate agent makes, and I know quite a few agents who had no problem making a living off that. But, you always know best, even though you've never worked a day there in your life.

And where is that carpenter now? They did the same thing here in NY when they first opened, however after a few years they dumped all the high paid craftsmen.

Still working there last time I checked, and that was four years after he'd been hired. I'll be sure to tell him next time I see him that he needs to start watching his back.

 

[FA Mikey]

Oil falls further down around to 55 a barrel. If this hold for a while first quarter might be a good one.

 

[Hopeful]

Oil falls further down around to 55 a barrel. If this hold for a while first quarter might be a good one.

And I'm sure the executives will be rewarded even more because it is their invaluable mangagement expertise that AA is able to make more money because of lower fuel prices.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Oil falls further down around to 55 a barrel. If this hold for a while first quarter might be a good one.

Crude could fall to $35.00 a barrel and they'd still be crying poor mouth.

 

[eolesen]

Crude could fall to $35.00 a barrel and they'd still be crying poor mouth.

Likewise, your pay could double and you'd still be whining.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Likewise, your pay could double and you'd still be whining.

I promise not to whine for a period of 3 years if you can get my pay doubled.

 

[Bear96]

I bet you'd still be whining.

 

[eolesen]

I promise not to whine for a period of 3 years if you can get my pay doubled.

Click Here. Select from the options with a blue background.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Click Here. Select from the options with a blue background.

Actually the concessions motivated me a few years back, same concept, different school and field.