combined f/a contract

[JMM]

So how many times can a reserve be tagged? Over and over until you run out of time or hit legalities?

Last august I was good for five days. I got assigned a turn (out and back) on day one. EVERY single time I got back to base I was "tagged". I ended up being OUT for FIVE days. It was utter hell. Min rest upon min rest back and forth across the country. I finally got released at 10PM on the last day I was good .... I went home and slept for three days!

I do not care how much money it saves the company, i NEVER want any of my east brothers and sisters to have to deal with the idiots in the west scheduling. They treat reserves like total pieces of crap and nothing is ever done about it!!!! :down: :down: :down:

 

[Sthrnboy]

Last august I was good for five days. I got assigned a turn (out and back) on day one. EVERY single time I got back to base I was "tagged". I ended up being OUT for FIVE days. It was utter hell. Min rest upon min rest back and forth across the country. I finally got released at 10PM on the last day I was good .... I went home and slept for three days!

I do not care how much money it saves the company, i NEVER want any of my east brothers and sisters to have to deal with the idiots in the west scheduling. They treat reserves like total pieces of crap and nothing is ever done about it!!!! :down: :down: :down:

Where shall I start? The West Reserve system is a joke. The Reserves have set (airport shifts) from ex: 6:00am – 12:00 midnight. There is about six/seven shifts but at any time scheduling can “TAG†you to sit for two more hours at the company’s discretion. Scheduling has called reserves earlier than there shift (3:00pm – 8:00pm) if they signed into the computer system for check in. So they would call a reserve at 2:00pm to do a boarding or flight.
The Scheduling dept can also change your set time that you requested. We have three shifts (AT HOME SIT – STANDBY) A/B/C they can change this at there will/wants.
Crew Resources may reschedule a Flight Attendant from one Reserve Duty assignment to another so long as it schedules her/him for a minimum rest of eight (8) hours between on-call periods.
The West Scheduling dept also retaliates against our West Reserves.
However, when tapes are pulled or something they automatically disappear.

Its purely a joke. It needs to be changed. It’s a broke system and the company gets away with murder with tag’s and re-routes, etc. When its always good for the company they use a method of projections. So if you work over 14 1/2 hours you get extra pay. HOwever, even if you work over 14 1/2 if its not projected but actual you just under you loose. Its broke and no one is looking after these guys/gals. :down: With the company talking about what a wonderful company we are. They have made all this money on the backs of the employees. Moral is down the tubes and our customers see it. Benefits have been taken away from pensions to pass travel for our retired crew members. When will the raping by the company stop? The company boasts about profits while flight attendant reserves are on food stamps and section 8 housing. We have two mechanic groups one with profit sharing and one without. The west employees got profit sharing off the backs of our east counterparts. The west employees should have got there cut of profit sharing out of the “new†company. Where shall it end? Time will only tell?
My question is how is this corporate responsibility? What happened to treating employees with respect and dignity? I would bet if the company would give its employees its (cut) then the company would have a much better product and we could all move forward. Look at the history of CAL? Why can’t our mgt look at history and create something special?


Just my personal feelings.

 

[lgwcalling]

Last august I was good for five days. I got assigned a turn (out and back) on day one. EVERY single time I got back to base I was "tagged". I ended up being OUT for FIVE days. It was utter hell. Min rest upon min rest back and forth across the country. I finally got released at 10PM on the last day I was good .... I went home and slept for three days!

I do not care how much money it saves the company, i NEVER want any of my east brothers and sisters to have to deal with the idiots in the west scheduling. They treat reserves like total pieces of crap and nothing is ever done about it!!!! :down: :down: :down:

I believe that, aside from the cultural differences, i.e., corporate, geographic, etc., this was a MAJOR reason why SO MANY of the East Furloughees left PHX after only a few months. Being abused by West Scheduling coupled with the low pay was more than they were willing to be compromised.

One of the reasons that US Airways East (pre 9/11) was able to sustain 15 year Reserves was because they had a Reserve System that was industry leading!! I believe that Tempe has a high turnover in their Reserve ranks.

 

[HPGUY]

This will stop.

Right now East and West sides are working under very different dynamics.

Correct me someone from the East if i'm mistaken about any of the following: East FAs aren't pay protected for lost flight time due to weather and etc, they have to go and find time on their own to make up for their lost pay. Therefore, a lot of the extra time that the West would have floating around is eatin up by the "block holders."

And if an Eastie would validate me on this comment as well.. I've gotten the feeling from reading the postings that the East side doesn't always have enough flight time to go around. I've seen the term "Block Hunters" and such. Can anyone shed some light?

 

[JMM]

I believe that, aside from the cultural differences, i.e., corporate, geographic, etc., this was a MAJOR reason why SO MANY of the East Furloughees left PHX after only a few months. Being abused by West Scheduling coupled with the low pay was more than they were willing to be compromised.

One of the reasons that US Airways East (pre 9/11) was able to sustain 15 year Reserves was because they had a Reserve System that was industry leading!! I believe that Tempe has a high turnover in their Reserve ranks.

Yes our turn over is VERY high for reserves. But the company does not care.

 

[USCREW]

Right now East and West sides are working under very different dynamics.

Correct me someone from the East if i'm mistaken about any of the following: East FAs aren't pay protected for lost flight time due to weather and etc, they have to go and find time on their own to make up for their lost pay. Therefore, a lot of the extra time that the West would have floating around is eatin up by the "block holders."

And if an Eastie would validate me on this comment as well.. I've gotten the feeling from reading the postings that the East side doesn't always have enough flight time to go around. I've seen the term "Block Hunters" and such. Can anyone shed some light?

"Block Hunters", haha that's funny. I've heard of chasing a block, meaning that an F/A will transfer in and out of a base where he/she can hold a line. It's true that we don't have enough blocks for everyone. The secondary lines (made up of left-over trips from primary) seem to help a bit. Secondary line holders can not SAP, but can still ETB.
If a flight is CXL, then we would not get credit for that flight but we still get duty pay protected which averages five hours a day. If we show up at the airport, check-in and the whole trip CXLs, then we get a two hour "Show-no-go". I'm not sure what you mean by "floating time gets eaten up by block holders". We all can go on the AIL (bid sheet) by noon to pick up trips that are available for the following day. This is done of course in seniority order.

 

[HPGUY]

"Block Hunters", haha that's funny. I've heard of chasing a block, meaning that an F/A will transfer in and out of a base where he/she can hold a line. It's true that we don't have enough blocks for everyone. The secondary lines (made up of left-over trips from primary) seem to help a bit. Secondary line holders can not SAP, but can still ETB.
If a flight is CXL, then we would not get credit for that flight but we still get duty pay protected which averages five hours a day. If we show up at the airport, check-in and the whole trip CXLs, then we get a two hour "Show-no-go". I'm not sure what you mean by "floating time gets eaten up by block holders". We all can go on the AIL (bid sheet) by noon to pick up trips that are available for the following day. This is done of course in seniority order.

I mean open time... Time that's unassigned and if no one snags it will be assigned to a reserve.

So would you say there is a loss of pay when a flight cancels that drives people to make up that time?

 

[USCREW]

I mean open time... Time that's unassigned and if no one snags it will be assigned to a reserve.

So would you say there is a loss of pay when a flight cancels that drives people to make up that time?

I'm not sure how to answer that. When I fly a trip, say a four day (over my dead body), and it is scheduled for 20 hours of pay, and several flights get CXL in the middle, I still get paid 20 hours because of variable minimum. Maybe we have duty rigs that the West do not.
The open time left over from the primary lines and the SAP process will be arranged into secondary lines. There are no more trips after that. The reserves have NO trips to claim as their own (except ETB which is not company time), just days on and days off. The people who hold secondary lines are in between B/Hs and reserves. They are technically blockholders but do not have a guarantee to their "position" on the trip since this is reserved for primaries only. The trips that reserves choose from on a daily basis come from blockholders who drop their trips for a variety of reasons.

 

[HPGUY]

I'm not sure how to answer that. When I fly a trip, say a four day (over my dead body), and it is scheduled for 20 hours of pay, and several flights get CXL in the middle, I still get paid 20 hours because of variable minimum. Maybe we have duty rigs that the West do not.
The open time left over from the primary lines and the SAP process will be arranged into secondary lines. There are no more trips after that. The reserves have NO trips to claim as their own (except ETB which is not company time), just days on and days off. The people who hold secondary lines are in between B/Hs and reserves. They are technically blockholders but do not have a guarantee to their "position" on the trip since this is reserved for primaries only. The trips that reserves choose from on a daily basis come from blockholders who drop their trips for a variety of reasons.

Yes the West do have duty rigs but it's campared with TAFB and Flight credit (scheduled or actual which ever is greater) and then they get paid the great of.

 

[FlightChic]

Isn't it time to start, at least thinking about, raising the payscale for the reserves? Doesn't anyone else think that a reserve/or junior lineholder making less than $25,000 a year is too low? When AFA negotiates the contract, wouldn't one of the items to negotiate be a more equitable wage for the flight attendants who make less than $25,000 for an entire year, (and that's before taxes)? What percentage of flight attendants make a wage of $25,000 and less? Wouldn't a company that offered 10 billion to buy another company be in a position to have their crew members not qualify for food stamps? Does the AFA feel this is okay as long as the more senior flight attendants make a fair wage? Is it at all possible to raise the lower end of the pay scale without the upper end?

I totally agree! We need more pay. I am based out of PHL and I fly about 45 hours a month because there aren't enough trips for reserves. My take home pay is about $1300 a month. I refuse to fly on my days off after sitting in based for most of the month. It is next to impossible to live on this.

Do senior members, AFA and the company think it's okay for junior flight attendants to work for rent money and collect food money from the government?

Apparently so! They don't care about us.

Does AFA collect the same amount of dues irregardless of vast differences in salary?

Yes, and what they do with it is beyond me. Oh wait, it all went to the PHL AFA council members that were in office so they could have a decent living.

Are the job qualifications/expectations more of a senior flight attandant than that of a junior flight attendant?

They treat blockholders like gold and reserves like crap. Reserves are expected to be able to get to the airport in 90 minutes if they are quick called, even if there is a storm brewing or if there is snow or ice. Reserves are expected to sit in base for most of the month (except for 11 days when they are off, which is actually a lot less if you commute). Reserves are expected to live off the minimum guarantee and fly on their off days if they want extra cash. Reserves don't know when to eat and sleep and go to the store for fear they will be called for a trip and won't make it to the airport in time or won't be able to hear the phone ring. If a reserve can't commute into base for a trip or if he/she is going on duty, then the reserve is in deep sh*t. If a block holder can't make it in for a trip, it is OK. They are excused because they are a beloved blockholder. We get the crap trips that no one else wants.

I hope to God that we don't do like the "west" and have to call scheduling at the end of the trip before being release. I absolutely REFUSE to do that! They can fire me for all I care, but after getting off of a long 3 or 4 day with 5 legs and minimum overnights, I am dead. There is no way I can work more flights. Even worse, what if I get off of a red eye? I DON'T THINK SO!

Does AFA realize that the most junior flight attendant has 6+ years with the company?

They don't give a rat's ###!

Three more questions:
1. Are my facts right? Yep! Sad but true!
2. Is anyone out there outraged about this? or is the status quo good? I am beyond enraged!
3. What's wrong with my thinking? Nothing! You hit the nail on the head! A lot of people are angry over this. Our morale is so low.

and just to jump to one possible answer:
well, don't work for such a low wage. That probably would solve the problem for those making an adequate wage but I would think AFA's goal would be to keep mainline flying and not outsource more of our jobs, and to insure fair pay for fair work.

I agree. I came back from furlough not knowing that I wasn't going to be flying. While I could go back to my other job, I am going to wait and see what happens with the new contract. If it doesn't get any better, I will jump ship. I also just started a part time business that will hopefully bring in some more money soon. I don't know why others are taking it. I don't think they will take it to much longer. If they do, they are idiots!

Thanks for reading my post. Thanks for sharing!

 

[l8rd8r]

As a blockholder on the East I'm not treated like a God nor is it ok if I miss my check in. Being at the older higher pay scale we are hounded like an injured animal. The Company can't wait for us to miss a beat to fired our over paid arse. Believe me we head out the day before our trip just to be sure we are in PHL to avoid a mis-flight.
Both sides need to get the word out over the good and bad of OUR contracts and fight to get the best and biggest improvements and that has to be the Reserves on both sides.
No one should ever be treated like those West f/A's and the never ending trips from hell how dehuminizing. There are violations all over that. The East with the lack of hour= lack of pay is criminal. Those two issues need correction ASAP.

 

[wmjb2002]

Flight Chic,
So it seems I overexaggerated your pay, if you only make $1300 per month, then that is $15600 (after taxes). That salary might be okay if you made tips. Also it might be okay if it were truly 45 hours, at minimum it's 75 hours if you never got a trip, and if you do get a trip, it's many more hours you are on line and not able to be working somewhere else. (i.e. 4 day trip = 20 hr. pay, f/a is 'on line' for approximately 80+ hours).
Flying days off shouldn't be the option to make a decent pay. I'm afraid that the only way this situation will be changed is when people stop accepting the abuse. or if others who don't fall into this category start caring about other AFA members. It still amazes me that there is no movement from AFA or the company to correct this.

AFA and the company should be working to raise the lower end of the pay scale because US Airways junior flight attendants don't make enough money to eat.
Leaving all the other issues and complications out. What do you think?
Agree?
Disagree?

Flight Chic, good luck! I hope the new contract helps you. Also, good luck with your business.

 

[ganesha]

Isn't it time to start, at least thinking about, raising the payscale for the reserves? Doesn't anyone else think that a reserve/or junior lineholder making less than $25,000 a year is too low? When AFA negotiates the contract, wouldn't one of the items to negotiate be a more equitable wage for the flight attendants who make less than $25,000 for an entire year, (and that's before taxes)? What percentage of flight attendants make a wage of $25,000 and less? Wouldn't a company that offered 10 billion to buy another company be in a position to have their crew members not qualify for food stamps? Does the AFA feel this is okay as long as the more senior flight attendants make a fair wage? Is it at all possible to raise the lower end of the pay scale without the upper end?
Do senior members, AFA and the company think it's okay for junior flight attendants to work for rent money and collect food money from the government? Does AFA collect the same amount of dues irregardless of vast differences in salary? Are the job qualifications/expectations more of a senior flight attandant than that of a junior flight attendant?

Does AFA realize that the most junior flight attendant has 6+ years with the company?
Three more questions:
1. Are my facts right?
2. Is anyone out there outraged about this? or is the status quo good?
3. What's wrong with my thinking?

and just to jump to one possible answer:
well, don't work for such a low wage. That probably would solve the problem for those making an adequate wage but I would think AFA's goal would be to keep mainline flying and not outsource more of our jobs, and to insure fair pay for fair work.
Thanks for reading my post.

Let's remember that on the East, the pay scale tops out @ 14 years. I haven't gotten a raise (other than the .30 this Jan) in years! Gas goes up, my insurance goes up, my electric bill goes up, and I am working on a wage that was paid to me years ago - the same amount now! We need to raise the cap and pay for all F/A's. Think immediate changes like RSV contract changes, but, think future changes too! Like retirement, better wages, better everything. East - get out and vote for your new union officials to carry you through the next several important years!

 

[furloughednow psa]

afa only cares about how it benefits the senior people and how much money they can get too keep the bus running. All the PHl officers did was pick up great trips on the etb board and get 120 hrs a month. While others werent even getting close to there time in.

 

[sharktooth]

afa only cares about how it benefits the senior people and how much money they can get too keep the bus running. All the PHl officers did was pick up great trips on the etb board and get 120 hrs a month. While others werent even getting close to there time in.

You need to quantify your remarks. Your blanket statements obscure the problem(s).

There are three different officers, President, Vice-President and Secy Treas.

Please list pay-time per month for each. (Hint: Secy Treas is/was on reserve).