Code-a-Phone

[aquagreen73s]

You should listen to what the OAL pilots are saying in the East cockpits.

I'm somewhat surprised by the memories that UAL pilots have with their go-around with the East. When those guys talk about this Nicolau award and their past experience, it's almost as if it's personal.

There's no support for the East. Take it to the bank.

 

[fr8tmastr]

"No." He cited the fact that the widebodies were fenced and that the East further received the top 500 seniority numbers as being more than sufficient to protect the expectations of East pilots.

Does he know the fences drop when the age 60 rule is changed? Does he also know that by 2012 400 of those 500 spots will have retired? (give or take 2 or 3) Does he know that by 2015 most Capt. positions will be held by former West pilots?

 

[aquagreen73s]

Does he know the fences drop when the age 60 rule is changed? Does he also know that by 2012 400 of those 500 spots will have retired? (give or take 2 or 3) Does he know that by 2015 most Capt. positions will be held by former West pilots?

Yes to all of the above.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Yes to all of the above.

Then you just defined windfall.

 

[Bud8EE]

I'm somewhat surprised by the memories that UAL pilots have with their go-around with the East. When those guys talk about this Nicolau award and their past experience, it's almost as if it's personal.

There's no support for the East. Take it to the bank.

Enjoy negotiating your contract with the company using LOA 93 as the benchmark. It's apparent the East guys are going to stick with it.

It appears that for them, along with protecting their careers it also fastly becoming personal.

 

[aquagreen73s]

It appears that for them, along with protecting their careers it also fastly becoming personal.

You call having nearly half your seniority list making less than Mesa captains a career? And worth protecting against what? An arbitrated agreement?

The East MEC: Doug's salvation. It'll be an easy justification to sell off the shuttle and PHL when the next merger comes around.

 

[Bud8EE]

You call having nearly half your seniority list making less than Mesa captains a career? And worth protecting against what? An arbitrated agreement?

The East MEC: Doug's salvation. It'll be an easy justification to sell off the shuttle and PHL when the next merger comes around.

When you are Teamsters? Who knows, maybe he will be lucky enough to have three contracts at one airline and enjoy a 3-way whip saw.

 

[luvn737s]

When you are Teamsters? Who knows, maybe he will be lucky enough to have three contracts at one airline and enjoy a 3-way whip saw.

Yeah the Teamsters are going to roll out the red carpet for a bunch of guys who vowed to scab out of spite. I think they'll go in-house (until the see the bill).

Personally given the behavior I've seen fron the east, I wouldn't step foot in a US east cockpit. Too unstable for me!

 

[CV580ETOPS]

ALPA cannot overturn an award through arbitration- they have no authority to do so. Every point in your post, especially this one: "This award will never be fully implemented on this property as currently written. That I know." is filled with emotional and highly subjective. Eventually, perhaps years from now, you will see more clearly.

...or not! <_<

 

[USA320Pilot]

If I remmeber correctly, Al Hemmingway wrote a letter to both the US Airways and AWA MEC's saying the company believes it can impose LOA 93 on the AWA pilots.

With the very real possibility that the East pilots work under LOA 93 for years to come, could senior management force concessions on the West pilots per Hemmingway's letter to the AWA MEC?

In regard to an East asset sale if another merger proceeds, yesterday US Airways' Merger Committee and Counsel presented to ALPA's Exeuctive Council graphs and charts to explaining the AWA pilot windfall. Several points made were that in 2005, AWA lost money and US Airways made a profit. In 2006, AWA lost $360 million and US Airways made enough in the East to overcome that $360 million loss and actually made a $300 million plus profit. Also, it was revealed this week that Scott Kirby was in charge of a secret program called "Project Zanzibar", which was an "executive suote" plan to put AWA into bankruptcy if the merger did not go through and reduce the airlines ASM's by 15% immediately.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[ClueByFour]

If I remmeber correctly, Al Hemmingway wrote a letter to both the US Airways and AWA MEC's saying the company believes it can impose LOA 93 on the AWA pilots.

Which also means that by proxy (nee, lawsuit), the AWA group can impose the Nicolau award on the East group.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[luvn737s]

Funny thing. The only real threat to the east that comes from the Nicolau award comes in the event of a furlough, and here the east guys are trying to scuttle the airline which would result in furloughs.

Why stop shooting yourselves in the foot? Empty the clip!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Funny thing. The only real threat to the east that comes from the Nicolau award comes in the event of a furlough, and here the east guys are trying to scuttle the airline which would result in furloughs.

Why stop shooting yourselves in the foot? Empty the clip!

I disagree. The award turned most of the east F/O's into permanent F/O's due to their age. These pilots had "career expectations" of finishing the last years of their careers as captains, with commensurate pay rates. That will not happen under the Nicolau embarrassment. Has nothing at all to do with furlough. Your statement MAY be true in the future ONLY if USAirways experiences phenomenal growth, which historically it never has and Parker has even said growth will be slow.

Furthermore, the UAL and DAL jumpseaters weighing in on this issue is absurd. There is so much animosity from those pilot groups toward the US east pilots that they probably broke open a couple of bottles of champagne themselves when Nicolau ruled. Of course they are going to say its fair and should stand; if US ever merges with one of them, it makes for an even bigger windfall for them no matter how THAT eventual merged list is compiled.

Finally, the west argument that the wide-body flying is protected, and that's the quid the east got for the quo of the slotting of the narrow bodies. On the surface, that sounds reasonable. But the east pilots are virtually barred from ever reaching the left seats of those wide-bodies once the ancient captains flying them now retire. The four year fence is meaningless. Once it comes down, virtually all of the left-seat wide-body vacancies will go to west pilots. (I don't believe for a New York second that the west pilots will not, as they portend, go in droves to PHL to fly widebodies as soon as they are able. Every other pilot group in history has shown that propensity to go after the big airplane with the big paycheck even if it means a long distance commute.)

 

[CactusFlyr]

I disagree. The award turned most of the east F/O's into permanent F/O's due to their age. These pilots had "career expectations" of finishing the last years of their careers as captains, with commensurate pay rates. That will not happen under the Nicolau embarrassment. Has nothing at all to do with furlough. Your statement MAY be true in the future ONLY if USAirways experiences phenomenal growth, which historically it never has and Parker has even said growth will be slow.

Furthermore, the UAL and DAL jumpseaters weighing in on this issue is absurd. There is so much animosity from those pilot groups toward the US east pilots that they probably broke open a couple of bottles of champagne themselves when Nicolau ruled. Of course they are going to say its fair and should stand; if US ever merges with one of them, it makes for an even bigger windfall for them no matter how THAT eventual merged list is compiled.




Finally, the west argument that the wide-body flying is protected, and that's the quid the east got for the quo of the slotting of the narrow bodies. On the surface, that sounds reasonable. But the east pilots are virtually barred from ever reaching the left seats of those wide-bodies once the ancient captains flying them now retire. The four year fence is meaningless. Once it comes down, virtually all of the left-seat wide-body vacancies will go to west pilots. (I don't believe for a New York second that the west pilots will not, as they portend, go in droves to PHL to fly widebodies as soon as they are able. Every other pilot group in history has shown that propensity to go after the big airplane with the big paycheck even if it means a long distance commute.)

You could not pay me enough to go to PHL.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The award turned most of the east F/O's into permanent F/O's due to their age.

Generally wrong. For it to be true, those F/O's would have to benefit from all of the East attrition if separate(which they don't) or only East attrition if combined (which they also don't). In short, a F/O that would have made Captain will still likely make Captain while a F/O who would have retired before making Captain will still retire before making Captain.

The four year fence is meaningless. Once it comes down, virtually all of the left-seat wide-body vacancies will go to west pilots.

Also wrong. For this to be correct, there would have to be a block of West pilots (below the 517) who would take all widebody Captain vacancies before any East pilot. Following the 517, these are the next pilots to have a shot at widebody Captain:

West, East, West, West, East, East, East, West, East, East, West, East, East, West, East, East, The pattern continues on down the list.

Can you explain why those East pilots on that list won't be able to get widebody Captain bids? Or conversely, how the West pilots will be able to get widebody bids before the East pilots senior to them?

Jim

ps - having a seniority list on my computer I have the advantage of seeing exactly how many retirements any pilot will benefit from - something few other pilots have.