Charlie_Tuna
Veteran
- Sep 29, 2005
- 661
- 0
It is funny how everyday USA320 posted the "Code-a-Phone" update for all to see and now it is so suddenly quiet since May 20....
ALPA Code-a-Phone...
ALPA Code-a-Phone...
Code-a-Phone
- Thread starter Charlie_Tuna
- Start date
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
It's the end of the game for the East MEC. ALPA will not touch the Nicolau award and as ALPA officers, the MEC cannot advocate the decertification of the union. There's nothing left for them to stay; nothing left in the their bag tricks to keep from facing the consequences of their arbitration strategy. The one thing they can say, and should say, will never happen: "We gambled and we lost. We're better off as a union united rather than divided. It's not ALPA's fault. It's our fault on the MEC for pushing an all-or-nothing strategy."
I can't wait to read the next couple of updates. Their political careers are all but dead.
Here ya go Sparky:
MEC Chairman’s Message - May 21, 2007
This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman's message to the pilots for Monday, May 21, 2007.
Today over 400 US Airways Pilots arrived in Herndon, VA, and delivered a message to our National union that if they are serious about “taking back†our union, no US Airways pilot can be left behind. It was truly an honor to witness the solidarity of our pilots, as they greeted the hundreds of pilots arriving by buses from the local DC airports as well as from PHL and CLT. As these pilots got off the buses and checked into the ALPA Herndon Office, they were greeted with applause by the hundreds of US Airways Pilots lining the sidewalks and entranceway into the ALPA Herndon Office. Prior to the presentations, the pilots were led outside where they marched single file, encircling the entire ALPA office building.
At around 1:00pm in a small upstairs conference room that was filled to capacity with 40 US Airways pilots and staff, the AAA Merger Committee initiated their 30 minute presentation to the Executive Council followed by the AWA merger Committee’s presentation. Following these presentations, both committees had a 10 minute opportunity for rebuttal and then the Executive Council members asked questions of the presenters. The presentations, although not recorded were made available to our pilots in two conference rooms via live feed where hundreds of US Airways Pilots were able to witness the presentations.
I had the opportunity to speak with our pilots before and after the presentations. Also, after the presentations, ALPA President, Captain John Prater took the podium where he addressed an angry crowd of US Airways pilots. Their message to Captain Prater was clear, “Fix this now.†And, “You can’t take the union back without us.
â€
I would like to offer a brief summary of the Merger Committee presentations that were made to the Executive council. Both the AAA and AWA presentations are posted in their entirety in “What’s New.
â€
The US Airways Merger Committee’s presentation focused on gross windfalls to the America West Pilots at the expense of the US Airways Pilots which is in direct violation of ALPA merger policy. Due to the fact that ALPA merger policy was not complied with, the award should be struck down and invalidated. Some of the inequities presented were:
• Although US Airways supplies 80% of the attrition vacancies, many of our pilots never see the Captain seat or they suffer delays where as AWA pilots leap ahead up to six years.
• Total windfall gain in wide-body Captain years. AWA +2,373 years vs. AAA (-2,373) years.
• Total windfall gain in narrow body Captain years. AWA +2,090 years vs. AAA (-2,090) years.
• AAA Legal Council noted discrepancies in the certified lists that incorrectly placed some of our pilots in a furloughed status as well as highlighted that the arbitrator disregarded key evidence in the case regarding AWA’s certain downsizing and bankruptcy filing absent the merger.
Our presentation also reminded the Executive Council, that they indeed had the duty and obligation to interpret ALPA merger policy.
The AWA Merger Committee presentation basically relied on the premise that the award was “final and binding.†Their Merger Council cited ALPA’s role of neutrality, and that ALPA’s responsibility is to “defend and present†the award.
Towards the end of the day, the MEC convened its special meeting to discuss the events of the day. We then recessed to the call of the Chair in anticipation of the Executive Council’s action later this week. Regardless of their decision, it is important for you to know that your MEC will take whatever action is necessary to protect the careers of the US Airways Pilots.
In the meantime, stay informed and look out for each other. Keep your families first and as always, fly safe and thanks for listening.
Now I didn't hear a single word there about "gambling and losing". Not a single word about not ALPA's fault. The merger policy is what it is. Had Nic stayed within the tenets of that policy there would be pissed off people but certainly not to this extent. If you cannot see what has happened as a windfall for the AWA group based on what was just presented above I don't think you are being realistic.
In any event, the list will not stand. One way or another. On that you can count. That is not meant as a threat. Not meant to piss you off. Not meant as anything other than the truth. And you know what?
My number is WELL north of 100. So I have nothing to #### about. Except that it's not about me. It's about a pilot group that is not going to take any more crap. From ALPA, an arbitrator who doesn't follow policy, or the company. Or a bunch of pilots who think they just won a lottery.
pilot
pilot
MEC Chairman’s Message - May 21, 2007
This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman's message to the pilots for Monday, May 21, 2007.
Today over 400 US Airways Pilots arrived in Herndon, VA, and delivered a message to our National union that if they are serious about “taking back†our union, no US Airways pilot can be left behind. It was truly an honor to witness the solidarity of our pilots, as they greeted the hundreds of pilots arriving by buses from the local DC airports as well as from PHL and CLT. As these pilots got off the buses and checked into the ALPA Herndon Office, they were greeted with applause by the hundreds of US Airways Pilots lining the sidewalks and entranceway into the ALPA Herndon Office. Prior to the presentations, the pilots were led outside where they marched single file, encircling the entire ALPA office building.
At around 1:00pm in a small upstairs conference room that was filled to capacity with 40 US Airways pilots and staff, the AAA Merger Committee initiated their 30 minute presentation to the Executive Council followed by the AWA merger Committee’s presentation. Following these presentations, both committees had a 10 minute opportunity for rebuttal and then the Executive Council members asked questions of the presenters. The presentations, although not recorded were made available to our pilots in two conference rooms via live feed where hundreds of US Airways Pilots were able to witness the presentations.
I had the opportunity to speak with our pilots before and after the presentations. Also, after the presentations, ALPA President, Captain John Prater took the podium where he addressed an angry crowd of US Airways pilots. Their message to Captain Prater was clear, “Fix this now.†And, “You can’t take the union back without us.
â€
I would like to offer a brief summary of the Merger Committee presentations that were made to the Executive council. Both the AAA and AWA presentations are posted in their entirety in “What’s New.
â€
The US Airways Merger Committee’s presentation focused on gross windfalls to the America West Pilots at the expense of the US Airways Pilots which is in direct violation of ALPA merger policy. Due to the fact that ALPA merger policy was not complied with, the award should be struck down and invalidated. Some of the inequities presented were:
• Although US Airways supplies 80% of the attrition vacancies, many of our pilots never see the Captain seat or they suffer delays where as AWA pilots leap ahead up to six years.
• Total windfall gain in wide-body Captain years. AWA +2,373 years vs. AAA (-2,373) years.
• Total windfall gain in narrow body Captain years. AWA +2,090 years vs. AAA (-2,090) years.
• AAA Legal Council noted discrepancies in the certified lists that incorrectly placed some of our pilots in a furloughed status as well as highlighted that the arbitrator disregarded key evidence in the case regarding AWA’s certain downsizing and bankruptcy filing absent the merger.
Our presentation also reminded the Executive Council, that they indeed had the duty and obligation to interpret ALPA merger policy.
The AWA Merger Committee presentation basically relied on the premise that the award was “final and binding.†Their Merger Council cited ALPA’s role of neutrality, and that ALPA’s responsibility is to “defend and present†the award.
Towards the end of the day, the MEC convened its special meeting to discuss the events of the day. We then recessed to the call of the Chair in anticipation of the Executive Council’s action later this week. Regardless of their decision, it is important for you to know that your MEC will take whatever action is necessary to protect the careers of the US Airways Pilots.
In the meantime, stay informed and look out for each other. Keep your families first and as always, fly safe and thanks for listening.
Now I didn't hear a single word there about "gambling and losing". Not a single word about not ALPA's fault. The merger policy is what it is. Had Nic stayed within the tenets of that policy there would be pissed off people but certainly not to this extent. If you cannot see what has happened as a windfall for the AWA group based on what was just presented above I don't think you are being realistic.
In any event, the list will not stand. One way or another. On that you can count. That is not meant as a threat. Not meant to piss you off. Not meant as anything other than the truth. And you know what?
My number is WELL north of 100. So I have nothing to #### about. Except that it's not about me. It's about a pilot group that is not going to take any more crap. From ALPA, an arbitrator who doesn't follow policy, or the company. Or a bunch of pilots who think they just won a lottery.
pilot
pilot
luv2fly
Veteran
- Aug 21, 2002
- 1,187
- 0
So exactly what are you going to do about the award? I mean how do you get around it? Decertify? Never agree to a new contract in order to avoid the award? Wouldn't that just lead to you continuing to work under the worst PWA in the business while others continue to surpass you in quality of life and pay?
I don't see any win win solution for the east pilots as unfair as the award may be.
prechilill
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2002
- 2,544
- 3,406
pilot said:
usair_begins_with_u
Veteran
- May 9, 2004
- 623
- 0
Nothing US-E pilots can do at this point but to DELETED BY MODERATOR. Can't even legally strike over this. Life's a bizzatch, get a helmet.
Mod note--that was a little over the line....
Mod note--that was a little over the line....
Walmartgreeter
Veteran
- Mar 6, 2003
- 1,430
- 1,143
"We gambled and we lost."
Again. Going to arbitration is a given under current policy. Agreeing to do so means you are agreeing to an arbitration that meets the standards of ALPA merger policy. This process is not "Vegas."
If pilots had been "leap frogged" over other pilots in the same airline, do you think ALPA would have let it stand? Nope.
Remember, the reason ALPA National has never overturned an award is they have never been asked to do so.
This award falls so far out of the range of ALPA Merger policy that it is disgraceful. In the area of "windfalls" it fails so badly one has to question the true intent of the person that wrote it.
If ALPA did not have the final say, then why is the award not handed directly to the company for implementation?
The process did not fail here, nor did any pilot group or lawyer. The only failure here is by the man that made the actual decision...one that will probably tear this airline and union apart.
This award will never be fully implemented on this property as currently written. That I know.
Greeter.
Again. Going to arbitration is a given under current policy. Agreeing to do so means you are agreeing to an arbitration that meets the standards of ALPA merger policy. This process is not "Vegas."
If pilots had been "leap frogged" over other pilots in the same airline, do you think ALPA would have let it stand? Nope.
Remember, the reason ALPA National has never overturned an award is they have never been asked to do so.
This award falls so far out of the range of ALPA Merger policy that it is disgraceful. In the area of "windfalls" it fails so badly one has to question the true intent of the person that wrote it.
If ALPA did not have the final say, then why is the award not handed directly to the company for implementation?
The process did not fail here, nor did any pilot group or lawyer. The only failure here is by the man that made the actual decision...one that will probably tear this airline and union apart.
This award will never be fully implemented on this property as currently written. That I know.
Greeter.
prechilill
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2002
- 2,544
- 3,406
ALPA cannot overturn an award through arbitration- they have no authority to do so. Every point in your post, especially this one: "This award will never be fully implemented on this property as currently written. That I know." is filled with emotional and highly subjective. Eventually, perhaps years from now, you will see more clearly.
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
No OAL pilots agree that the Nic award is, as you say, "so far out of the range of ALPA merger policy." I just had a DAL pilot on the jumpseat; a former LEC chair and long time member of the system board of adjustment. I posed this actual question to him and his response was simply, "No." He cited the fact that the widebodies were fenced and that the East further received the top 500 seniority numbers as being more than sufficient to protect the expectations of East pilots. Ratioing the remainder of the list is perfectly withing merger policy guidelines. His comments were nearly identical to those of a UAL pilot on the jumpseat last week; a one-time LEC vice-chair in LAX. Sure, these are only two opinions, but I have yet to hear from a single OAL pilot say anything other than the East has nothing to complain about. ALPA is not going to touch something that isn't broken.
Have all the other OAL pilots you have talked to read the ruling and looked at the lists? I doubt they know much about it and they are thinking "Well, he took care of the widebody flying, that should cover me in a merger". I haven't had any OAL pilots on the jumpseat since this came out, but I'd be surprised if they would do anything but agree with us, while asking for a ride.
donttouchthebeauty
Veteran
- Jan 11, 2006
- 545
- 0
Are you just "that" far out of touch.. Do you really think someone asking you for a ride home is going to "disagree" with you.. And further more Asking a UAL or DAL pilot if they "think" what happened to USAir pilot was "fair" is like asking a culver city crypt and a blood if they think what happened to the other gang member is fair.. Come on --- THE UAL AND DAL pilots would do ANYTHING to despise and see the USAir pilots in misery b/c of previous merger attempts and "they" were afraid of what?? Losing their seniority to USAir guys.. You folks seriously need some help.. and I hope you can't sleep at night, b/c everyone knows what happened is wrong and you are supporting something that you know you shouldn't - which will only come around to bite you.. REMEMBER this industry is far from stable...
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
The UAL and DAL guys both read the ruling. It's only two opinions, but they are the ones who brought the whole thing up in the first place. I guess it's one of those situation where you need to be there to gauge the sincerity and credibility of each speaker.
And for the benefit of Greeter, the fact that Prater "presents" the list to Parker does not mean there is some sort of discretion on the part of ALPA on whether to meddle with the decision. As a party to this process, ALPA national is bound under both contract law and tort law to execute the duties they undertook in good faith. Furthermore, there is nothing in the award which is really out of whack such that the result shocks the conscience of a reasonable observer.
You should listen to what the OAL pilots are saying in the East cockpits.
