CNN reports UA may liquidate when war starts

[RowUnderDCA]

Ok, then.

I''ll ask a question:

I have tickets this weekend on United. (domestic and for pleasure, no real need to go)

Would you go? It''s to a place that wouldn''t be too difficult on me if I got stranded, but I need to be back in DC for a conference within hours of my scheduled return.

Ive already paid penalites on this ticket. It''s kind of cursed.

 

[ITRADE]

As far as I know, this is an open board, not affiliated with any airline, airline union, trade organization, or professional association.

It seems it would be an open board just like www.planebusiness.com was.

As such, as long as we posters obey the rules of the board (i.e., no flaming, no swearing, no "outing", no posting copyrighted info), the door is open.

In other words, feel free to post away and discuss ideas for UA, US, NW, AA, CO, DL, F9, B6, WN, YX, etc.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

This is a sincere question:

Is this board really sponsored by some kind of airline employee association? A union? a fraternity?

Is it sponsored by an industry association?

I haven''t been posting much and not reading much, because the interesting posts seem to have evaporated lately. (Where have they gone?)

If I am not welcome to post as non-employee, who happens to have an interest in U''s future because of family relations, has an interest as a Silver Preferred and has an interest because of my profession, then I will graciously leave.

Of course, civility and sensitivity are good qualities, but hey guys, this is an internet bulletin board... about two steps up from scrawlings on the wall. ''scritti politti?''

Seriously, if this is a forum for aggrieved airline employees, I will monitor the site for information about the pilot''s pension and look for the other forums for my other concerns like airline/airport relations and airline industry issues in general.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Wings, you''re sounding like Chip. Stop that -- it''s scaring me!...

TPG isn''t in the door at UAL yet, and won''t be unless the current management warms up to the idea out being ousted by Bondo-man.

 

[ITRADE]

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On 3/19/2003 11:01:34 AM justanadd wrote:

"US has a total deficiency with regard to Asia. US''s one or two options would be to acquire the hub operations at either SFO or DEN. US would need long range planes to fly these routes, and I cannot begin to fathom what US is considering given that UA''s longhaul Asia craft are totally uncommon to US - 747s and 777s."

Dream on. UAL''s fifth freedom rights and slots at Narita will be the most covented gem. Besides the cost of acquiring them (and the costs of training, new facilities, etc etc)it would be a fierce battle to be the highest bidder. And not to mention NWA will be watching as to who their new competitor will be. And they too, would be interested in acquiring additional slots for future use. IF UAL sold this gem U chances of acquiring it are slim to none.

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You''re making the assumption tha US is the sole entity that could make the deal for US. Bronner has stated publicly that he''s interested in assets. Bronner''s RSA has more bucks than you can imagine.

 

[justanadd]

"US has a total deficiency with regard to Asia. US''s one or two options would be to acquire the hub operations at either SFO or DEN. US would need long range planes to fly these routes, and I cannot begin to fathom what US is considering given that UA''s longhaul Asia craft are totally uncommon to US - 747s and 777s."

Dream on. UAL''s fifth freedom rights and slots at Narita will be the most covented gem. Besides the cost of acquiring them (and the costs of training, new facilities, etc etc)it would be a fierce battle to be the highest bidder. And not to mention NWA will be watching as to who their new competitor will be. And they too, would be interested in acquiring additional slots for future use. IF UAL sold this gem U chances of acquiring it are slim to none.

 

[Light Years]

I agree that I dont see U being interested, or in their right mind in they are, a significant amount of UALs Asia operation. Not only is it an expensive, complicated, and highly competitive market, it doesnt mesh with our fleet or current geographical location.
Internationally, I see US being a big player in the transatlatic market for STAR. TA flights will be the most greatly affected by war etc, but the demand will return as we are recieving new A332s. Keep in mind UAs IAD gateway would be gone as well as thier JFK-Europe, making PHL a more attractive gateway, especially for FF miles holders. The Carribbean is also very important, and an extension to Central America and even deep SouthAmerica (more A330s for that) would be logical extensions for the future. Asia, I think would be better served by the Star Alliance partners from U hubs and thier existing gateways.
But what U really needs to focus on is the domestic route system- granted , we are the biggest carrier in the most populated part of the country, but were missing the rest! I dont think U should go too crazy- a few additional flights to the hubs and minihubs from ORD, LAX, SFO. A Kennedy station should be opened to accomodate LAX/SFO-NYC, an important market were unable to serve from LGA, as well as LAX/SFO-BOS.
But Denver is what they need to try for. With one hub, youve got the midwest, west coast, and even the underserved mountain states covered. Its got great O&D traffic considering its location, a fantastic airport with room for growth, built in feed from Air Wisconsin and GLA (which would have more a/c available from ORD closure), no Southwest, and Frontier as the only signicant threat. The only international I see U doing from DEN would be LGW, HNL, and plenty of Mexico cities.

 

[Light Years]

I have to agree with ITRADE and Bob. This topic came up recently on the UA board too, and we had the poor taste/"I''d never discuss such a thing" camp, and the "isnt this an airline discussion board?" gang that ITRADE, PineyBob,RowUnderDCA and myself fall into. Im a furloughed US Airways employee- I loved my job, the company, and the people I worked with. I enjoy discussing it and want it to be successful. If United, or anyone else, for that matter goes under and were still here, it wasnt caused by our discussions on usaviation.com! OF COURSE none of us want to see thousands of peers lose thier jobs etc, but nor would we like to see US sit around and not take advantage of an opportunity.
Lets all remember this IS an internet discussion board, open to everyone interested in U and this wacky industry. What''s notable is that its a rather civil board- even when tempers do flare up respect is usually maintained. We dont see racist, sexist or homophobic posts from 15 year olds here (airliners.net, anyone?) I think we''ve got a good little thing going here.
That said, how does the liquidation of an airline actually work? How long does it take to get all of the crews and airplanes back where they belong? It seems like it would be utter chaos for United with so many flights, especially overseas?

 

[ITRADE]

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On 3/19/2003 10:59:19 AM RowUnderDCA wrote:

Ok, then.

I''ll ask a question:

I have tickets this weekend on United. (domestic and for pleasure, no real need to go)

Would you go? It''s to a place that wouldn''t be too difficult on me if I got stranded, but I need to be back in DC for a conference within hours of my scheduled return.

Ive already paid penalites on this ticket. It''s kind of cursed.



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Go.

 

[usfliboi]

Raise your hand if your one of the few that would kick Chip for speculating about this same thing?

 

[retread]

I give our (AAA) survival about a 50/50 chance. Lets all just hope that we are still around. Prayers to our soilders.

 

[justanadd]

Do you think he is the only party in this country with those kinda bucks? Come one!! There are other Bronners out there. It would take more than just money or are you going to tell me that they have allot of experience in the Asian culture down there in Alabama (No offense meant). U has no experience in the Pacific, it is not the same market as Europe. Maybe they might acquire a few slots but the whole operation? What a joke. Have you ever been to Narita and seen United or NWA''s operation? Did you know that NWA started what is now know as JAL? And you think RSA and Bronner can just wave a wad of cash and BINGO they are running UAL''s Narita Hub. I suppose they will take over UAL''s cargo operation too. I like USAirways but NW is a fierce competior. It would take more bucks than YOU could imagine to take over a operation of that size.
I don''t think you have thought this one out. All the countries that UAl serves out of Narita and all the goverment red tape. A carrier that already has a presence in Asia would get this one. Money isn''t the answer to everything. Curious have you ever been to Asia (chinese buffets don''t count).

 

[Bear96]

Fliboi,

Speculating about the future is fine.

Chip on the other hand presented his speculations as fact; a done deal; based on secret inside information that he couldn''t share with the rest of us schlumps.

In any case they are two different discussions. This thread is about U taking over some of UA''s routes and assets and independently operating what are parts of the UA system today, with UAL Corp. totally out of the picture. Chip''s "unique / interesting corporate transaction" threads had to do with a combined US/UA corporate entity of some sort, with some sort of continued existence of UAL Corp. in some form or another.

And to those who are wondering, as a UA employee, it doesn''t really bother me to see people speculating about picking over our carcass. Hey, it''s just a job, and a company; life will go on whatever happens, so have at it.

However it does amuse me that the U people were so sensitive about it not too long ago and seem to have forgotten that. Also I don''t seem to recall too many UA people speculating all that much about taking over U''s world a few months ago when the respecitve roles of the airlines were relatively different-- certainly not to the degree that I see U folks doing it now over the past couple of weeks.

And though I think UA will not survive the war and its aftermath, I am not too sure U will either. So it seems a bit premature and optimistic to talk about U setting up their own NRT hub (and have you taken a look at the Japanese economy and stock market lately?).

But, good luck to us all!

 

[ITRADE]

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On 3/19/2003 11:48:38 AM justanadd wrote:

Do you think he is the only party in this country with those kinda bucks? Come one!! There are other Bronners out there. It would take more than just money or are you going to tell me that they have allot of experience in the Asian culture down there in Alabama (No offense meant). U has no experience in the Pacific, it is not the same market as Europe. Maybe they might acquire a few slots but the whole operation? What a joke. Have you ever been to Narita and seen United or NWA's operation? Did you know that NWA started what is now know as JAL? And you think RSA and Bronner can just wave a wad of cash and BINGO they are running UAL's Narita Hub. I suppose they will take over UAL's cargo operation too. I like USAirways but NW is a fierce competior. It would take more bucks than YOU could imagine to take over a operation of that size.
I don't think you have thought this one out. All the countries that UAl serves out of Narita and all the goverment red tape. A carrier that already has a presence in Asia would get this one. Money isn't the answer to everything. Curious have you ever been to Asia (chinese buffets don't count).

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Where at all did I state that Bronner and crew would acquire the entire UA operation in toto? FYI, I didn't. You're making a lot of assumptions that I never made and seem to be a little defensive for no reason.

The scenario may very well envision the UA division ceding all third country service out of Japan and holding only the ex-U.S. flights.

UA's NRT presence isn't all that enormous. UA flies from NRT to Taipei (1/2x), Hong Kong (1x), Bangkok (1x), Singapore (1x), Inchon (2x), and Beijing (1x).

As to travel, why does it matter if I have to been to Asia or not? Is it really germane to the topic at hand?

FYI #2, I lived near Osaka for 6 months, have traveled Japan extensively; have been to China, Hong Kong, Macau, and Thailand. Are you happy now????

 

[Light Years]

Thank you Bear96. There were and are employees of U who act like your killing off a sister by suggesting someone buy the Shuttle. Some people are more sensitive about things, and dont like to envision a plan B- the people who refuse to think about a carrier going under, are often the same who dont think about it happening to thier own, or at least not seriously enough.
As for speculaton, I love US Airways, but I have discussed distribution of their assets as well. Its fun for some of us who are airline fans. I lost my US job, I''m on unmemployment, I just dont cry about finances and such on an airline board. If others want to do that, fine. If some want to talk about the pension issue, or this months Attache, your favorite plane, headquarters, whatever-- its a US Airways discussion board!