Chinese Fossil May Link Birds and Dinosaurs

[777 fixer]

You are correct on the first count and partly correct on the other. See, I knew you were smart.
I'm amused by people who dismiss the bible outright. Even if you remove the faith aspect of it; the bible is historically accurate. Evolutionists place blind faith in Darwin on carbon dating. Also, if you live by biblical tenets you are more likely to lead a more fulfilled and happy life. I don't claim to have lived by these tenets myself and though I know better, I still don't on many occasions. Having been raised Catholic in New York City, I once looked down upon those who took the Bible literally too.
Many people who believe in evolution are quick to deride those who believe in God and the Bible as intellectually inferior and less sophisticated, yet these people are also clinging to faith; albeit not in a higher being but in mere mortal man. Who is going more out on a limb here?
The Bible teaches you to take care of the poor and weak, while Darwin teaches survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest was the doctrine of the Nazis; it is what eugenicists teach.
Given a choice, I'll throw my lot with the Bible and its seeming inconsistencies and stretches of the imagination.

Hate to say this but you have me a bit confused.

Your post seems to be quite the opposite of the one you posted back in August.

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...PIATE&st=81

In that one you said religion was the opiate of the masses and man made. Yet here you say you'll throw your lot in with the bible. You must have a lot of track marks on your arm there Ed.

The Bible teaches you to take care of the poor and weak

On that other thread you said Religion tells you to let the rich and powerful rob you, because your reward will be in heaven. Good scam. Religion works hand in hand with the state to suppress the masses.. Seems like you can't make up your mind about religion there Ed.

 

[Ed Norton]

Hate to say this but you have me a bit confused.

Your post seems to be quite the opposite of the one you posted back in August.

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...PIATE&st=81

In that one you said religion was the opiate of the masses and man made. Yet here you say you'll throw your lot in with the bible. You must have a lot of track marks on your arm there Ed.

The Bible teaches you to take care of the poor and weak

On that other thread you said Religion tells you to let the rich and powerful rob you, because your reward will be in heaven. Good scam. Religion works hand in hand with the state to suppress the masses.. Seems like you can't make up your mind about religion there Ed.

I stand by everything I said. You say you are confused because you pair God and religion as one. Most people do but I don't. God made man. Man made religion because man disagrees on how to worship God.
The ruling class has through time used religion to control the masses. They can't do it alone. They need the cooperation of the priest class (with its popes, bishops and cardinals) to instill fear into people.
The word of God is twisted to benefit a few at the expense of most. Adolph Hitler's favorite Bible verse was Romans 13: Let every soul be in subjection to the higher powers: for there is no power but of God; and the powers that be are ordained of God. Of course he conveniently forgot to mention that God's laws are to be obeyed above all laws made by man.
Kings have used the church to tell the people that they rule by "Divine Right." John Locke challenged this nonsense; he had to flee Engla8:32nd for Holland to save his neck in 1683.
Latin was the language chosen by the Roman church to conduct business. Why? Because they didn't want the average peasant to be able to to read (those who could) that what was being told and done by the Roman church was not in the Bible.
At one time it was punishable by death to translate the Bible from Latin into a native tongue. William Tyndale dared to translate the Bible into English and was burned at the stake in 1536. Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses of Contention against the corruption of the Catholic church to the door of the Wittenberg Church in German in 1517. He was the first to translate the bible into German. He was luckier than Tyndale and evaded the wrath of Rome.
The phrase calling religion the opiate of the masses was coined by Karl Marx in the mid 1800. Marx was right. Today we can add sports, Hollywood, consumerism, to the list of opiates. Anything to keep the masses distracted from what really goes on in the world.
Here's another Bible quote: John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

 

[Ed Norton]

As you can see, God and religion are not synonyms. At least according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary.
religion
2 entries found.

1. religion (noun)
2. 1get (verb)

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century

1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

— re·li·gion·less adjective

god
10 entries found.

1. 1god (noun)
2. 2god (transitive verb)
3. god-awful (adjective)
4. God-fearing (adjective)
5. act of God
6. Assembly of God
7. God's acre (noun)
8. man of God
9. son of God
10. sun god (noun)

Main Entry: 1god
Pronunciation: \ˈgäd also ˈgȯd\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
Date: before 12th century

1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler

 

[Garfield1966]

Hate to say this but you have me a bit confused.

Your post seems to be quite the opposite of the one you posted back in August.

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...PIATE&st=81

In that one you said religion was the opiate of the masses and man made. Yet here you say you'll throw your lot in with the bible. You must have a lot of track marks on your arm there Ed.

The Bible teaches you to take care of the poor and weak

On that other thread you said Religion tells you to let the rich and powerful rob you, because your reward will be in heaven. Good scam. Religion works hand in hand with the state to suppress the masses.. Seems like you can't make up your mind about religion there Ed.

777,

You are wasting your time here but I suspect you know that as well. You are attempting to apply logic to a person who did not use logic to arrive at their beliefs.

 

[Ed Norton]

777,

You are wasting your time here but I suspect you know that as well. You are attempting to apply logic to a person who did not use logic to arrive at their beliefs.

You just can't accept the fact that you defend your religion(secular humanism/atheism) with the same ardent fervor that a Bible thumping red neck preacher does. You are just as intolerant as those you deride.

 

[Garfield1966]

Atheism is as much a religion as health is a disease.

Intolerant? That's funny. By your standard, you are just as intolerant and nearly as much of an atheist as I am. I only beat you by one. You discount every other religion past and present with no qualms what so ever yet when someone discounts yours you are offended?

 

[Ed Norton]

Atheism is as much a religion as health is a disease.

Intolerant? That's funny. By your standard, you are just as intolerant and nearly as much of an atheist as I am. I only beat you by one. You discount every other religion past and present with no qualms what so ever yet when someone discounts yours you are offended?

You need to think outside your litter box, kitty. You just can't fathom that someone doesn't follow the media prescribed pattern of thinking. That leads you to the assumption that I am intolerant of other people's faiths. This is how intolerant I am: If I had a time machine I would go back in time with AKs and RPGs and give them to the "Indians" so they could blow Columbus' ass and his crucifixes back to Spain.
Isn't it your ilk that believes all Muslims are terrorists and that we should turn the Middle East into a glass parking lot? :huh:

 

[Garfield1966]

You need to think outside your litter box, kitty. You just can't fathom that someone doesn't follow the media prescribed pattern of thinking. That leads you to the assumption that I am intolerant of other people's faiths. This is how intolerant I am: If I had a time machine I would go back in time with AKs and RPGs and give them to the "Indians" so they could blow Columbus' ass and his crucifixes back to Spain.
Isn't it your ilk that believes all Muslims are terrorists and that we should turn the Middle East into a glass parking lot? :huh:

Show me one post where I advocated using a nuke on anyone any where. I dare you. I have no use for the radicals of any religion whether they be Jewish, Muslim, Christian or any others. Those that condemn any group in it's entirety based on the actions of a few are of little use to me as well.

Perhaps intolerant was the wrong term. You believe in your religions and discount all others. The fact I am an atheist pretty much blows your 'following the media..." BS out of the water given that atheist are pretty much treated like the plague in this country and much the same for the rest of the world.

 

[Ed Norton]

Show me one post where I advocated using a nuke on anyone any where. I dare you. I have no use for the radicals of any religion whether they be Jewish, Muslim, Christian or any others. Those that condemn any group in it's entirety based on the actions of a few are of little use to me as well.

Perhaps intolerant was the wrong term. You believe in your religions and discount all others. The fact I am an atheist pretty much blows your 'following the media..." BS out of the water given that atheist are pretty much treated like the plague in this country and much the same for the rest of the world.

You support Obama. Don't you? Obama is continuing Bush's wars. But wait, I forgot.... Bush bad, Obama good. That translates to Bush's war bad Obama's war good!
The Neo-cons should adore this guy! He's continuing all the Bush policies. If that's not a prime example of the two parties being opposite sides of the same coin, controlled by the international bankers (Bank of England, JP Morgan Chase, Rothschilds etc,) I don't know what is.
And now Obama gets the Nobel Peace Prize. HOW ORWELLIAN IS THAT???!!!
Any way. We've strayed quite a bit from the main topic. Don't you think?

 

[Garfield1966]

No I do not. I voted for the lesser of two evils and I do not support all of his policies. Some of them I think are good, soe of them not, some of them I am not sure and only time will tell.

Yes you have.

So do you believe the fossils are authentic or not and do you believe they open p a new window to our origins?

 

[Ed Norton]

I don't discount that these fossils could be genuine. However I still believe in God. The Biblical account of creation is 6 days. Having said that it is possible that 6 days in God's calender could be 6 million years.
This is just a straight forward question. I'm not trying to be facetious. I we follow the theory that oil comes from the bones of dead dinosaurs, (instead of it being constantly produced in the earth's core and rising up through fissures in the earth) then how come those fossils haven't turned into 93 octane?

 

[Dignity]

The Biblical account of creation is 6 days. Having said that it is possible that 6 days in God's calender could be 6 million years.

on day one, God created Light, but he just created the ability for Light to exist but not necessarily our Sun...yet.

(that would suggest something is starting to come together, sort of like combining that will eventually form the Sun)

causing..

Light.

the Bible says the two great lights, one to rule over day and one to rule over night were created on day four. the only two great lights relevant to Earth would be the Sun and Moon.

the previous three days the Sun was not fully formed or existed (as we know it) at that point.

the Sun would be fully formed on day four..

if the Sun was not fully formed until day four..

and we determined 24 hours for one day after the Sun was already created based on how the Earth spins..

if the Sun did not officially debut until day four, the Earth could not spin on days two and three (even though the Earth may have been present)


therefore one day to God cannot be 24 hours..

(based on three previous "days" existing prior to the Sun on day four)

 

[Garfield1966]

I am not a geologist so I cannot accurately speak to why some organic matter fossilized and others turned into oil. I suspect it has to do with location. Just as not all organic matter turned into fossils or fuel (some just decomposed and got recycled into other life) some were fossilized due to the location in which the organism died. I see to recall reading somewhere that the composition of oil does contain organic matter and consequently could not just be created by inorganic matter from the earth.

As for the order of things astronomically. I am pretty sure a sun/star must exist before any planets can come into orbit. Our sun has a gravitational force that holds the earth along with the other 9 planets (8 if you kick out Pluto) in orbit. I do not know how long it took for the earth to settle down into it's current 24 +/- hour orbit once it was captured by the suns gravitational pull. Given the slow process of things in space and the massive size's involved, I would not be surprised if it took a few million years for our 'day' to happen.

I do not know what is meant by 'created first'. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be rearranged into different compounds or structures. So as I understand it, everything always was. Whether the earth was formed prior to the I do not know but I thought I remembered reading that science supports the idea that the sun formed first and it's gravitational pull brought the earth and the other planets into orbit. Some of the planets are large enough (our own included) that they have a gravitational pull of their own and were able to attract smaller satellites into their orbit.

As for the moon. The earth would have had to have an established orbit around the sun before it could have attracted a satellite of it's own.

A 'day' is a human term for the measurement of time based on the location of the sun in the sky. Prior to formation of the Solar system, there would have been no basis for the measurement of a day as there was no day/night or any thing in between. So if the word 'day' is used on the bible, it's a 24 hour period plane and simple as that is it's only use.

 

[Dignity]

A 'day' is a human term for the measurement of time based on the location of the sun in the sky. Prior to formation of the Solar system, there would have been no basis for the measurement of a day as there was no day/night or any thing in between. So if the word 'day' is used on the bible, it's a 24 hour period plane and simple as that is it's only use.

well the universe is estimated at 15 billion years old.

our planet Earth is estimated at 5 billion years old.

so from the beginning of our universe, day one (when all the gas and dust started to come together)

the "Light"..

the difference would be 10 billion years from "Light" (day one) to complete formation of the Sun (day four).

the estimate would be 2.5 billion years = 1 day for God.

 

[Garfield1966]

You lost me. I view a 'day' as a unit of measurement. It was devised by man to measure the length of time it takes the earth to make one revolution on it's axis.

If the term day was used in the bible, it has it be interpreted as a 24 hour period. That is it's only interpretation here on earth.

Regardless of how one wants to define what a day is, do you believe that man walked with dinosaurs? Do you believe that we did not evolve from some sort of more primitive ancestors such as Ardi and Lucy? Do you believe that the various species that exist on the Galapagos islands had a common ancestor with species on the continents that managed over time to evolve into separate sub-species that are only found on in the Galapagos? As far as I am aware, the marine Iguanas only exist in there and no where else yet they are genetically related to their main land cousins.