China: Master Copykat

[delldude]

 
“China is pursuing joint-design and production of four to six Russian advanced diesel-electric attack submarines containing Russia’s latest submarine sonar, propulsion, and quieting technology. The deal would improve the PLA Navy’s capabilities and assist China’s development of quiet submarines, thus complicating future US efforts to track and counter PLA submarines,” the commission writes.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-chinese-navy-will-be-bigger-than-americas-by-2020-2014-12

 

[777 fixer]

Diesel boats are great for coastal defense.  Not so good for prolonged patrols off an adversaries coast.  That's what nuke boats are for.  And if your nuke boats are noisy it makes them rather easy to find.

 

[delldude]

Diesel boats are great for coastal defense.  Not so good for prolonged patrols off an adversaries coast.  That's what nuke boats are for.  And if your nuke boats are noisy it makes them rather easy to find.

 
I remember when one of those noisy diesel boats surfaced undetected in a US carrier battle group a few years ago.
 

 
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.
The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.
One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html#ixzz3qY7qw8Wv
 

 
However: 
 

 
China is commissioning three upgraded Type-093 Shang-class nuclear-powered attack submarines. The new Type-093G "is reported to be an upgraded version of Type-093 … With a teardrop hull, the submarine is longer than its predecessor and has a vertical launching system," the China Daily reported.
http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-new-submarines-can-carry-the-greatest-threat-to-the-us-navy-2015-4

 
And I think I read somewhere they copped US shaft quieting technology.

 

[777 fixer]

Their diesel boats are quiet enough, not on par with what the Europeans make though.  If you read the article it's the nuclear boast that have the noise issues.  Those are the boasts that will be sitting off your coast with SBL or going after your surface ships on open ocean.

 

[delldude]

 
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”
 
Lao Tzu

 

[Ifly2]

"I remember when one of those noisy diesel boats surfaced undetected in a US carrier battle group"

The diesel boats are actually quite well suited for doing that, if the carrier battle group is close enough to the boats' home

 

[777 fixer]

 

 
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”
 
Lao Tzu
 

 
There is also an inherent danger in overestimating them as well.

 

[777 fixer]

Those flight deck uniforms look awfully familiar.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvNwy16tOzs

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Now that's funny. They have a ways to go...

 

[777 fixer]

Now that's funny. They have a ways to go...

 
Watching the flight deck crew I would venture to say their training consisted of watching hour upon hours of USN flight deck ops.

 

[Ms Tree]

 

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/image-emerges-of-what-could-be-a-chinese-knock-off-of-r-1739214469

 

With all the protuberances and sharp angles it does not look very stealthy.

 

[777 fixer]

   

With all the protuberances and sharp angles it does not look very stealthy.

 
Definitely not.  That kind of aircraft is much easier and cheaper to produce than a stealthy one.

 

[Ms Tree]

While watching that carrier video I thought I was watching Top Gun.  Launching off of a ramp?  Definitely cheaper but it does not seem like a very effective launch mechanism if you want a loaded fighter off the deck in a hurry.

 

[777 fixer]

While a ramp is cheaper and easier to maintain than a catapult the problem is the aircraft taking off can't launch at full gross weight.  Which limits range and weapons carried.

 

[Ms Tree]

Do you know if they have mid air refueling capabilities?  They could take off with min fuel max weapons and refuel after takeoff.  Crappy way to do it but it could work in certain situations.  Would not work in combat to defend the ship but .....