Can you believe THIS?

[WNrforlife]

http://feminist-reprise.blogspot.com/2006/...-southwest.html

 

[LCC_#1]

http://feminist-reprise.blogspot.com/2006/...-southwest.html

Before everyone starts defendng SWA and bashing the fat person, really read what was written. Although a bit too long, there are alot of good points brought up that I feel will be overlooked. I feel for this person because I feel overweight or fat people are the easiest discriminated. While I would highly suggest an obese person (way obese) not sit in the exit row, I feel we need to understand that obesity is a HUGE ( no pun intented) problem in our country and we need to find a better solution besides proclaiming that one only put down the donuts or go on a diet. If we as an industry can offer big girl wheelchairs, there should be one or two oversized seats for the extremely obese..but the airlines would NEVER give up 2 seats for this God forbid.

 

[corl737]

http://feminist-reprise.blogspot.com/2006/...-southwest.html

I simply refer these complainers to the FedEx website. It clearly states that refrigerators cost more to transport than shoe boxes. If a passenger requires a space larger than the dimensions of the seat SWA offers they're available in first class on airlines that choose to offer that option. Even at that, they'll pay extra for the space.

Also, there are no restrictions prohibiting Customers of Dimunitive Size from purchasing two seats if they need extra space for whatever reason. There's no discrimination in the policy!

 

[FWAAA]

I simply refer these complainers to the FedEx website. It clearly states that refrigerators cost more to transport than shoe boxes. If a passenger requires a space larger than the dimensions of the seat SWA offers they're available in first class on airlines that choose to offer that option. Even at that, they'll pay extra for the space.

Also, there are no restrictions prohibiting Customers of Dimunitive Size from purchasing two seats if they need extra space for whatever reason. There's no discrimination in the policy!

I agree completely. It's not like WN said "You're fat and we only fly skinny, beautiful people, so get your fat ass away from our ticket counter." WN simply required this passenger to purchase more space.

Wasn't this lardass in the news a couple years ago when the suit was filed? Seems like deja vu.

 

[corl737]

In today's society one of the hazards of being profitable is that it makes you a juicy target for law suits.

Interestingly, the Customer of Size policy has been in effect at SWA since 1980. Virtually every major US airline has similar provisions in their contract of carriage as well.

 

[KCFlyer]

Before everyone starts defendng SWA and bashing the fat person, really read what was written. Although a bit too long, there are alot of good points brought up that I feel will be overlooked. I feel for this person because I feel overweight or fat people are the easiest discriminated. While I would highly suggest an obese person (way obese) not sit in the exit row, I feel we need to understand that obesity is a HUGE ( no pun intented) problem in our country and we need to find a better solution besides proclaiming that one only put down the donuts or go on a diet. If we as an industry can offer big girl wheelchairs, there should be one or two oversized seats for the extremely obese..but the airlines would NEVER give up 2 seats for this God forbid.

SOme airlines already have oversized seats...it's called "first class" and it comes at an extra cost. If SWA were to install some oversized seats on their planes, and a "customer of size" bought a 21 day advance purchase seat and I paid walk up fare, why shouldn't I be given first shot at that seat?

It's my understanding that the second seat is not charged at "full fare". It makes the trip more comfortable for the "customer of size" as well as the "regular size" passengers.

Corl is correct, most other airlines have similar guidelines, the difference being that another customer has to take the initiative to say that someone else is encroaching on their space. When this policy first made headlines, an orgainization named the National Association for Acceptance of Fat People invited representatives of Southwest and other airlines to one of their conferences. Southwest, American and Delta all showed up. American and Delta reps indicated to her that if another passenger complained, the FA would try to find a volunteer to trade seats. If none could be found, the "customer of size" would be placed on the next filight out. I have to wonder what is more "humiliating"...being asked in advance to pay for a second seat, or having an FA have the person stand up and ask if anyone would be willing to trade seats...and if none could be found, being asked to leave the aircraft.

 

[hp_fa]

The two most precious capacities in the passenger cabin of an aircraft are cubic inches and weight. The ability to store items, whether carry-ons, food, beverage carts, supply carts, trash carts, ovens, emergency equipment and the passengers themselves, as well as the weight associated with all of those items, is what drives a large portion of the economies of operating an aircraft and determining its capacities for profitability. If someone requires more cubic inches of valuable cabin space or more weight lifting capacity then that normally allotted for a customer, then that customer should need to pay for it. The politically correct premise that you need to make provisions for people who require more resources then the norm at no additional cost is crazy.

Also, don't get me started on what the dynamics in the cabin are if you have a full aircraft and some passengers encroach on other people's space. Three plus hours of that kind of stuff always makes for a fun filled trip.

 

[corl737]

I do want to add that while I fully agree with SWA's policy (and those of the other airlines as well) this particular situation wasn't handled perfectly.

SWA has always strived to avoid strict rules by letting those employees involved at the local level take whatever actions they believe to be appropriate. Given the flexibility to resolve a situation on the spot without having to get approval from some management guru is a SWA customer service trademark. However, this time the inconsistency between segment legs seemed to be the problem. Thus the issue is one of the "application of policy", not "race."

By the way, if she's so hopping mad and offended, why is she smiling so large (pun intended) in all the pictures of her in the media?

 

[LCC_#1]

SOme airlines already have oversized seats...it's called "first class" and it comes at an extra cost. If SWA were to install some oversized seats on their planes, and a "customer of size" bought a 21 day advance purchase seat and I paid walk up fare, why shouldn't I be given first shot at that seat?

I don't know, you tell me, coming from an airline that has LUV as it's trading symbol and big hearts on your a/c. If you put your glasses on you will see I stated this as an INDUSTRY problem and simply made a suggestion as obesity is a major problem in the USA. SW seems to LUV their passemgers sooo much, why not think of something innovative?


Sorry, the message I get? We only LUV you if you are an appropriate size and have no medical problems. Oh, I'm sorry, obesity is a choice. Real classy SWA.

 

[corl737]

SW seems to LUV their passemgers sooo much, why not think of something innovative?

I'll bet the folks in the Puzzle Palace in Dallas are working on something exactly like that.

This is, as you stated, an industry-wide (and I do mean "wide") problem. The current round of legal suits are only the beginning as I forsee every airline being forced (under the broad application of the Americans with Disabilities Act) to provide a certain number of seats conforming to the largest of passengers. Airlines have already been forced to make provisions for personal wheelchairs to be stowed in the cabin, this is a predictable next step.

Still, I argue that a pay-by-the-pound system could fix a lot of industry issues. It works well for UPS and FedEx!

 

[LCC_#1]

In today's society one of the hazards of being profitable is that it makes you a juicy target for law suits.

And it makes many employees from that profitable airline arrogant. I wish some of you would take a moment and reread your post and the arrogant..this is the way it is...tone. You people are freakin amazing.

Some of you refer to outdated 1980 policies. Unless any of you have noticed, the average fanny size of your basic American has greatly increased in 26 years and NONE of the airlines seem to understand that too many are uncomfortable on the tight seating configurations PERIOD!
Not one airline is willing to take out seats and make airplanes more comfortable but to even REFER to FEDEX like fat people are somehow CARGO? Then for someone to basically say to read the small print on the right of carriage...like we ALL read it. And from a carrier who brags about how much they value and LUV their customer. You people are sick!! I can only hope the majority of the SWA employees aren't as insensitive, arrogant, and power hungry. :down: :down: :down:

I'll bet the folks in the Puzzle Palace in Dallas are working on something exactly like that.

This is, as you stated, an industry-wide (and I do mean "wide") problem. The current round of legal suits are only the beginning as I forsee every airline being forced (under the broad application of the Americans with Disabilities Act) to provide a certain number of seats conforming to the largest of passengers. Airlines have already been forced to make provisions for personal wheelchairs to be stowed in the cabin, this is a predictable next step.

Still, I argue that a pay-by-the-pound system could fix a lot of industry issues ... including carry-on luggage.

THANK YOU corl737,
Your post is what I expect from your company. And, it was one of ackwowledgement, understanding, and most importantly faith that your management team is taking this issue seriously and doing something about.

I am not fat, but I would love for ALL of us to be in a fat suit for a day to understand how highly prejudice and insensitive Americans are towards large people. And all those smiles many of you referred to by the writer? I know many heavy people who will tell you those are smiles to cover the pain of horrible remarks from insensitive boobs.

 

[corl737]

Not one airline is willing to take out seats and make airplanes more comfortable [....]

Many, many airlines have made provisions to make airplanes more comfortable by installing First Class and Business Class seats. United Express has even added room to some of the seats in their RJs! But of course, more space means more cost ... a simple fact of economics, not discrimination.

I am not fat, but I would love for ALL of us to be in a fat suit for a day to understand how highly prejudice and insensitive Americans are towards large people.

National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
http://www.naafa.org/

I have read a lot of the NAAFA information and find it intersting and enlightening. Yes, Americans can be an intolerable lot. Still, I find it very offensive when someone (regardless of size) believes they're entitled to special treatment in one situation (like getting more space within an airliner for the same cost as a smaller person) then screams because they aren't treated like everyone else in other situations.

Current-design coach-class airline seats are created for the average person. My mother, all 90 lbs and 4'10" of her, doesn't get a 25% discount because she only uses 3/4 of the seat she purchased. Perhaps if airlines marketed their tickets by the cubic foot it would be better understood exactly what is being sold?

Please note that my remark regarding "pay by the pound" was nondiscriminatory. It applies an equal criteria to every single individual regardless of their race, size, or intellect. (Even FedEx doesn't differentiate between a pound of paper or a pound of fruitcake!)

[...] those smiles many of you referred to by the writer? I know many heavy people who will tell you those are smiles to cover the pain of horrible remarks from insensitive boobs.

In my opinion the dollar signs in Nadine's eyes betray any humiliation this woman may have felt. Sorry if you don't agree with my personal opinion about the underlying motivation of this woman. I'm willling to wager that the number of women signing up to be distributors for "Warm Spirit" pruducts grows exponentially because of the free publicity Nadine has strategically created nationwide through her suit. I know I had never heard of her direct-sales company before her press release hit the news wires.

*** I continue to agree that Southwest did not handle the situation as well as they could have. We're not perfect (obvioulsy) and have a long way to go but it is a long-term goal!

 

[LCC_#1]

Still, I find it very offensive when someone (regardless of size) believes they're entitled to special treatment in one situation (like getting more space within an airliner for the same cost as a smaller person) then screams because they aren't treated like everyone else in other situations.

Current-design coach-class airline seats are created for the average person. My mother, all 90 lbs and 4'10" of her, doesn't get a 25% discount because she only uses 3/4 of the seat she purchased. Perhaps if airlines marketed their tickets by the cubic foot it would be better understood exactly what is being sold?

Please note that my remark regarding "pay by the pound" was nondiscriminatory. It applies an equal criteria to every single individual regardless of their race, size, or intellect.

In my opinion the dollar signs in Nadine's eyes betray any humiliation this woman may have felt. Sorry if you don't agree with my personal opinion about the underlying motivation of this woman.

*** I continue to agree that Southwest did not handle the situation as well as they could have. We're not perfect (obvioulsy) and have a long way to go but it is a long-term goal!

I respect opinions and yours of course. It was just starting to FEEL like that mob mentality. It was just alittle freaky.

I can say as a flight attendant that most really heavy people are very embarrassed when they discover how big they really are. Airplanes are like pictures..they don't lie. I have seen over weight passengers sit and suffer instead of humble themselves and ask for an extension. I just don't see the entitlement thing.

What is Nadine's motivation? Only she really knows, but the did do one thing...brought up the awareness.

Don't get me wrong. I think the entire USA needs to take a stand for better fitness, eatting habits, and lobbying against the preservatives that I feel are killing us.

BTW, the airlines with f/c don't put those big seats in for the fat folk. Now THAT was funny.

 

[WNJETFIXER]

I simply refer these complainers to the FedEx website. It clearly states that refrigerators cost more to transport than shoe boxes. If a passenger requires a space larger than the dimensions of the seat SWA offers they're available in first class on airlines that choose to offer that option. Even at that, they'll pay extra for the space.

Also, there are no restrictions prohibiting Customers of Dimunitive Size from purchasing two seats if they need extra space for whatever reason. There's no discrimination in the policy!

Couldn't of said it better myself.

 

[corl737]

Don't get me wrong. I think the entire USA needs to take a stand for better fitness, eatting habits, and lobbying against the preservatives that I feel are killing us.

It is ironic that preservatives are killing us!

BTW, the airlines with f/c don't put those big seats in for the fat folk. Now THAT was funny.

Yeah, those FC eats are only for the folks that are fat ... in the wallet!