Southwest declining, JetBlue on the rise

[lostplanetairman]

Brought to you actually by airlines like SWA that do not have Defined Benefit plans

Wake up, most employers don't have defined benefit plans. And few airlines do any longer, either--including foreign carriers and foreign employers in general. It's reality now. It's not SWA's fault. It's the overall economy.

HR Diva

 

[JAMAKE1]

Wow. This message board has really digressed into adolescent stone throwing. Southwest and United are two very different animals. With a global network comprised of a mixed aircraft fleet, of course United's operation is much more complex and hence, more costly. There are some things United does very well, such as taking care of its most valued customers during irregular ops. United's p.s. service is a very differentiated product that has been well received and has done what it was designed to do (capture a higher percentage of high yield traffic in the market). On the flip side, Southwest is a fine airline and every flight I have been on, the esprit de corps that SWA is known for, has always been reflected back to me in the fun-loving and helpful service of its F/A's. There are some things I personally value on longer haul segments, such as IFE options, and a lie-flat bed with all of the bells and whistles across the pond, but in the short-haul segment, Southwest is very efficient and delivers a quality product at the right price point. Southwest provides value. United provides global reach and offers a portfolio of products that cater to different customer mixes. Two different animals and neither one is better than the other, just... different. B)

 

[Ch. 12]

You mean they hedged it. Big difference.

Get over it, Mags. Hedging is a business strategy open to ALL. It is NOT true that other carriers cannot hedge. All you have to do is lay some cash out in advance...pre-purchase, if you will. Out of cash you say? Should have managed it better. WN has chosen to hedge and during times like now where fuel is sky high, it really pays off. We should not exclude hedging from their performance b/c ANYONE can hedge. Rather than bi*&hing and moaning about it, other carriers should follow suit.

And if you are so eager to re-state WN's performance due to hedging benefits, perhaps you should look at the past few decades where WN would have actually made MORE money had they NOT hedged. You see...just as they had bought futures at lower prices before the current spike (hence additional profit), they also bought futures many times in the past and fuel prices went down. These aren't options...they have purchased at a set rate so they have won some and lost some. To me, it's even more impressive that they have profited all along despite their LOSSES due to hedging as well.

As it turns out, WN would have profited all of these years with or without hedges. All that the hedges do are mitigate risk of ever-changing fuel prices. Rather than ride the highs and lows of the market, WN has chosen to have more predictable fuel costs. Perhaps if you understood hedges you would understand their irrellevance in this discussion. But I'm sure that you are never short of something to feel jaded about so you can find something else.

Oh...and PS...I am NOT a WN employee but rather one of a competitor. However, I look at the issues objectively. To be ignorant of what works at competitors within your industry is what will cause other carriers to fall further and further behind. It would be wise to stop being so envious of everyone else and to start seeing things as opportunities for your own carrier.

 

[ngneer]

Like they used to say in the old Smith-Barney commercials, Southwest makes money the old fashioned way: they earn it.

 

[tug_slug]

United?

DING DING we have a winner.

Magsu seems to think that because his employer has all but rapped him that its everyone elses fault but those who are in command of his ship.

 

[artiefufkin1]

Southwest's slow march to the middle of the pack started long ago. They've been able to hide their increased labor costs by increasing stage length. On an adjusted stage length basis WN's costs are over 20% higher today. Lately the fuel hedging has helped. Take that away and AAI and LCC both had higher pre tax margins.

And WN does not have mature labor costs. Analyst estimate they get a half cent CASM break due to their growth rates. ie many employees still on lower end of pay scales. many aircraft not seeing expensive Mx costs yet.

 

[KCFlyer]

Southwest's slow march to the middle of the pack started long ago. They've been able to hide their increased labor costs by increasing stage length. On an adjusted stage length basis WN's costs are over 20% higher today. Lately the fuel hedging has helped. Take that away and AAI and LCC both had higher pre tax margins.

And WN does not have mature labor costs. Analyst estimate they get a half cent CASM break due to their growth rates. ie many employees still on lower end of pay scales. many aircraft not seeing expensive Mx costs yet.

Artie...hows Delta doing? Southwest is over 30 years old. How long do they have to go before labor costs "mature"? Not too long ago, Southwest offered a buyout for more "mature" employees to take early retirement - thus lowering labor costs a bit, but they certainly didn't get a mass exodous of topped out employees heading out the gates.

 

[furloughednow psa]

Jet Blue is there own biggest enemy. They are growing to fast and Southwest is just sitting back waiting and watching. Why spend or loss the money. Let them do it!