Can Us Airways Bring A Contract Directly To Worker

[unit4clt]

During the Aug 2002 when the restructureing aggreement was presented to us, It was presented as a company proposal. We were also told the IAM did not negotiate with the company. Many find it odd that the company would would be so kind as to automatically recognize the IAM as the union representative for Mainline Express workers as well as Midadlantic workers. Whats really sad is the payscales they pushed for MDA. and Mainline EX. They did everything they could to get these agreements passed, and now the IAM has no credibility with the membership or the company!!!!! This is why the company expects thm to do it again!!!!

 

[robbedagain]

During the Aug 2002 when the restructureing aggreement was presented to us, It was presented as a company proposal. We were also told the IAM did not negotiate with the company. Many find it odd that the company would would be so kind as to automatically recognize the IAM as the union representative for Mainline Express workers as well as Midadlantic workers. Whats really sad is the payscales they pushed for MDA. and Mainline EX. They did everything they could to get these agreements passed, and now the IAM has no credibility with the membership or the company!!!!! This is why the company expects thm to do it again!!!!

well the iam wanted to reduce the mainline express and midatlantic payscales to better suit their own needs for the ones who are in the hubs

 

[Mike W]

Robbedagain wrote;

well the iam wanted to reduce the mainline express and midatlantic payscales to better suit their own needs for the ones who are in the hubs

I'd like someone to explain to me how the expansion of Mid-Atlantic or Mainline Express protects the employees in the hub cities. This company is not using the RJ's as replacement aircraft for the turboprops. They are replacing mainline airplanes. As the mainlines are relaced in the outlying stations with MDA and M/E not only does it reduce the mainline flying into the hubs but it displaces agents from those outlying stations. Where do you think they're going to take their 20 years or more of seniority. Most likely to a hub station possibly bumping a junior agent.
Once the pilots agreed to 400 plus RJ's. (remember,that was done before our trip into BK) the writing was on the wall. If some protections for displaced agents wasn't provided, those agents would have had no rights to any jobs and would have most likely hired in at entry level. So, would you have preferred them just let the company kick all of us to the curb? This situation sucks,make no mistake about it. My station was made M/E last June. Some of us took transfers, others chose to stay at below industry standard pay, and others just quit outright. A lot of good employess have left and are going to leave because of what's going on. That can't be good for this company. Management is very fond of telling us, "You have to pay a competitive wage to get good people". That's true from the boardroom to the breakroom.

 

[diogenes]

Mike,

Concur.

I was led to believe that, other than what the concessions modified, the original agreement remained intact.

Under that interpretation, one could carry their seniority back and forth between mainline and MDA. One could reject an offer to MDA, and retain severance and recall rights to mainline. One could reject an MDA offer, and a later date, accept an MDA opening (via regular openings, not recall) and retain all seniority.

Those were EXACTLY the provisions when stations were expressed under the 99 agreement. As MDA is a mainline division, why should the rule be MORE punitive than affiliate rules?

That being said, I have received uneasy whispers the MDA rules WILL be more punitive. The IAM has been quiet, but I know MDA talks have been going on.

I hope I'm wrong, but I believe it's about to get much worse.

 

[Mike W]

Diogenes,
From what I have been told the MDA contract is still being negotiated at this late date. The company is now trying to back off of the rates of pay which were negotiated as part of the August 2002 restructuring agreement. Nothing would surprise me. This bunch has never lived up to its' word.Why start now?

 

[diogenes]

Mike,

I wonder, if and when the MDA language is revised, whether there will be a vote. Remember, the original concession language was passed by a vote, with some items "to be negotiated".

I hate to constantly expect the worst, but U has a way of bringing that out in a guy.

 

[Mike W]

Dio,
To be perfectly honest I don't know if there will be a vote. I don't even know if there any Fleet Service agents employed by MDA yet. I would think they would have to ratify any contract they'd be working under.

 

[Tim Nelson]

No he is not right on the money, he calls them union bosses and then tries for the third time to start his own union and appoints himself to the director's position.

Then he posts wrong information.

The IAMAW, both DL141 and 141M received the $1.25 million which was then paid to the financial advisor's, lawyers and to cover the expenses of negotiating concessions, just like AFA, ALPA, TWU and CWA received the same expense reimbursement.

The IAM had me-too clauses, just like AFA, CWA and ALPA, and since ALPA and the AFA got concessionary agreements first, and got MDA recognition and board seats the IAM got the same.

Now you complain about having a pensions? Your group lost its pension in 1992, and complained about it and now that you got a very good pension you complain about it? The IAM pension fund is a separate entity from the union, it is run half by the employers that pay into it and half by the IAM, it has nothing to do with the general operation of the IAM, but once again you post what you want and not the truth.

http://www.iamnpf.org/npf/pages/main_page/index.htm

Third the company was in Bankruptcy and the contracts would have been abrogated if the second vote did not occur, abrogation, no contract, no work rules, company free to impose any conditions they want. If you don't believe me, go look up at what happened to the IAM members at UAL when they first went into bankruptcy, there was no agreement reached by the mechanic and related, UAL files a section 1114 motion and asked the court to impose a 13% pay cut, the
pay cut was imposed but the judge decided to make it 14%! That is FACT!

So Tim, why don't you post the what REALLY happened and not YOUR version of it?

Learn this about bankruptcy:

Sharon Levine went over all the procedures and steps in the bankruptcy codes. One item she covered in depth is the 1113 letter, which refers to the section of code that ensures that a company negotiates with the union before they seek abrogation of the labor agreement. When a company seeks protection, the agreement remains in effect. When a union negotiates an 1113 letter it secures an agreement with the company showing that the company will not seek further cuts from labor. To this date, no company that has had an 1113 letter negotiated has ever asked the court to abrogate it.

Companies that request abrogation of the labor agreement but it must meet the following nine (9) distinct requirements:

1. The debtor in possession must have made a proposal to the union.
2. The proposal must be based upon the most complete and reliable information available at the time of the proposal.
3. The modification must be necessary to permit reorganization.
4. The modification must provide that all affected parties be treated fairly and equitably.
5. The debtor must provide the union with such relevant information as is necessary to evaluate the proposal.
6. The debtor must have met with the collective bargaining representative at the reasonable times subsequent to making the proposal.
7. The debtor must have negotiated with the union concerning the proposal in good faith.
8. The union must have refused to accept the proposal with good cause.
9. The balance of the equities must clearly favor rejection of the agreement.

Levine also noted that bankruptcy is not the preferred course for your contract.

700rb,

I thought we already discussed the IAM pension?

Simply said, The IAM pension plan comes in many varieties. The one drafted for fleet service was of the worst [kind] and nothing to be desired when compared to the modest 401k fleet service had at the time. The bottom line was that it was a $47 million concession that US AIRWAYS was very excited to sign on to. I thought you knew this?

For you to fabricate that somehow the IAM pension plan was an 'increase in benefits' is nonsensical and rubbish.

Think of it this way. The name BLue Cross has a good name much like the IAM pension plan. But if you have the most pathetic 'form' or 'shell' of blue cross blue shield then it isn't necessarily a good thing. With fleet service the IAM Pension plan is called a concession, yet the second or third greatest concession [monetarily speaking] in the contract.

Secondly, regarding me-too's. I think you are confused over terminology. I think fleet service would love to have a 'me too' in its contract since all the other groups have so much more. A 'me too' simply does not exist in the fleet service contract. A terrible injustice indeed. Fleet service did have a thinly veiled 'you too'. But after the mechanics voted against the first contract I believe fleet service was told that their ratification would still stick, regardless.

Thirdly, Levine manufactured a one sided gloom and doom that may or may not have been true. What she failed to do [and the IAM] was to give the proper instruction to fleet service as to what their legal rights were if they voted no and the company abrogated a contract. This was one reason why alot of my buddies at United threw the IAM out and brought in the Mechanic union, because the IAM's Regime became a company mouthpiece to them.

As a side, I can't remember where I read it but I believe you said the IAM has 650,000 members or something like that. I believe it is more like 420,000 now counting just active members [once over 1 million]. They have been losing thousands and thousands of members in each year's LM2 reports filed. And a part of that is because members are kicking the IAM out because they can't tell where the company ends and the union begins. I have heard all the nightmares at United so therefore it was not surprising to me that the IAM would simply not be competent enough to hang onto those longtime members.

regards,

 

[delldude]

[

curious as to how you came to be enchanted with IAM...didn't your fine flock salvo a vote by not having enough members to keep certification?

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

No he is not right on the money, he calls them union bosses and then tries for the third time to start his own union and appoints himself to the director's position.

Then he posts wrong information.

The IAMAW, both DL141 and 141M received the $1.25 million which was then paid to the financial advisor's, lawyers and to cover the expenses of negotiating concessions, just like AFA, ALPA, TWU and CWA received the same expense reimbursement.

The IAM had me-too clauses, just like AFA, CWA and ALPA, and since ALPA and the AFA got concessionary agreements first, and got MDA recognition and board seats the IAM got the same.

Now you complain about having a pensions? Your group lost its pension in 1992, and complained about it and now that you got a very good pension you complain about it? The IAM pension fund is a separate entity from the union, it is run half by the employers that pay into it and half by the IAM, it has nothing to do with the general operation of the IAM, but once again you post what you want and not the truth.

http://www.iamnpf.org/npf/pages/main_page/index.htm

Third the company was in Bankruptcy and the contracts would have been abrogated if the second vote did not occur, abrogation, no contract, no work rules, company free to impose any conditions they want. If you don't believe me, go look up at what happened to the IAM members at UAL when they first went into bankruptcy, there was no agreement reached by the mechanic and related, UAL files a section 1114 motion and asked the court to impose a 13% pay cut, the
pay cut was imposed but the judge decided to make it 14%! That is FACT!

So Tim, why don't you post the what REALLY happened and not YOUR version of it?

Learn this about bankruptcy:

Sharon Levine went over all the procedures and steps in the bankruptcy codes. One item she covered in depth is the 1113 letter, which refers to the section of code that ensures that a company negotiates with the union before they seek abrogation of the labor agreement. When a company seeks protection, the agreement remains in effect. When a union negotiates an 1113 letter it secures an agreement with the company showing that the company will not seek further cuts from labor. To this date, no company that has had an 1113 letter negotiated has ever asked the court to abrogate it.

Companies that request abrogation of the labor agreement but it must meet the following nine (9) distinct requirements:

1. The debtor in possession must have made a proposal to the union.
2. The proposal must be based upon the most complete and reliable information available at the time of the proposal.
3. The modification must be necessary to permit reorganization.
4. The modification must provide that all affected parties be treated fairly and equitably.
5. The debtor must provide the union with such relevant information as is necessary to evaluate the proposal.
6. The debtor must have met with the collective bargaining representative at the reasonable times subsequent to making the proposal.
7. The debtor must have negotiated with the union concerning the proposal in good faith.
8. The union must have refused to accept the proposal with good cause.
9. The balance of the equities must clearly favor rejection of the agreement.

Levine also noted that bankruptcy is not the preferred course for your contract.

i'm a unoin man, but seems to me that this is one problem ALL companys face!!!!!! RED TAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[delldude]

i tell ya...he can't farmout airbus heavies either...so then what?

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

so then we move on, DUDE!!!!!!

 

[700UW]

You keep fighting and never give up until you win!

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

Isnt Ann Coulter hot!!!!!!!! Oh, sorry moderator, and fellow posters, got off track!!!!

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

You keep fighting and never give up until you win!

700, 700........700.....I must applaud your loyalty....But( the preverbial...but),,,Surely, you must not be too serious as to even thinking what that man has to say(Carville) Remember, you can be a union man and be a Republican, also. I know that is hard for you to fathom 700, but it is true. The man you just posted is one of many problems we face, yes, i'm talking labor issues!!!!!! Please dont make me look for quotes!!! I think you know what I am saying!!! To other posters, I digress, back to the thread!!!!!!! GOOD DAY........MORE LATER