Can Us Airways Bring A Contract Directly To Worker

[Tim Nelson]

There has been alot of chatter and rhetoric from some so called union bosses indicating that your company can't possibly bring a contract proposal to the membership and that it would be breaking the law if the union didn't sign on to a tentative agreement. This is not always true.

Back in the first restructuring, the IAM never signed a tentative agreement but allowed a 'company proposal' to be voted on by its members. Some suggest that the appeasement of $1.2 million, automatic MDA recognition, board seats, IAM pension and possible other considerations pursuaded the IAM to waffle and then present the company's proposal to its fleet service members.

It remains to be seen if there will be any appeasement this time to get the IAM to 'criss cross'.

Regards,

 

[insp89]

There has been alot of chatter and rhetoric from some so called union bosses indicating that your company can't possibly bring a contract proposal to the membership and that it would be breaking the law if the union didn't sign on to a tentative agreement. This is not always true.

Back in the first restructuring, the IAM never signed a tentative agreement but allowed a 'company proposal' to be voted on by its members. Some suggest that the appeasement of $1.2 million, automatic MDA recognition, board seats, IAM pension and possible other considerations pursuaded the IAM to waffle and then present the company's proposal to its fleet service members.

It remains to be seen if there will be any appeasement this time to get the IAM to 'criss cross'.

Regards,

The silence is deafening after the last post....Sad to say Mr. Nelson is right on the money.

 

[PITbull]

Not permitted in the AFA Constitution. Needs to go through the MEC for a vote.

If that were the case and if management would bring out any kind of proposal to the employees and circumvent our structure, IT WILL FAIL HORRIBLY, regardless the threat.

 

[700UW]

No he is not right on the money, he calls them union bosses and then tries for the third time to start his own union and appoints himself to the director's position.

Then he posts wrong information.

The IAMAW, both DL141 and 141M received the $1.25 million which was then paid to the financial advisor's, lawyers and to cover the expenses of negotiating concessions, just like AFA, ALPA, TWU and CWA received the same expense reimbursement.

The IAM had me-too clauses, just like AFA, CWA and ALPA, and since ALPA and the AFA got concessionary agreements first, and got MDA recognition and board seats the IAM got the same.

Now you complain about having a pensions? Your group lost its pension in 1992, and complained about it and now that you got a very good pension you complain about it? The IAM pension fund is a separate entity from the union, it is run half by the employers that pay into it and half by the IAM, it has nothing to do with the general operation of the IAM, but once again you post what you want and not the truth.

http://www.iamnpf.org/npf/pages/main_page/index.htm

Third the company was in Bankruptcy and the contracts would have been abrogated if the second vote did not occur, abrogation, no contract, no work rules, company free to impose any conditions they want. If you don't believe me, go look up at what happened to the IAM members at UAL when they first went into bankruptcy, there was no agreement reached by the mechanic and related, UAL files a section 1114 motion and asked the court to impose a 13% pay cut, the
pay cut was imposed but the judge decided to make it 14%! That is FACT!

So Tim, why don't you post the what REALLY happened and not YOUR version of it?

Learn this about bankruptcy:

Sharon Levine went over all the procedures and steps in the bankruptcy codes. One item she covered in depth is the 1113 letter, which refers to the section of code that ensures that a company negotiates with the union before they seek abrogation of the labor agreement. When a company seeks protection, the agreement remains in effect. When a union negotiates an 1113 letter it secures an agreement with the company showing that the company will not seek further cuts from labor. To this date, no company that has had an 1113 letter negotiated has ever asked the court to abrogate it.

Companies that request abrogation of the labor agreement but it must meet the following nine (9) distinct requirements:

1. The debtor in possession must have made a proposal to the union.
2. The proposal must be based upon the most complete and reliable information available at the time of the proposal.
3. The modification must be necessary to permit reorganization.
4. The modification must provide that all affected parties be treated fairly and equitably.
5. The debtor must provide the union with such relevant information as is necessary to evaluate the proposal.
6. The debtor must have met with the collective bargaining representative at the reasonable times subsequent to making the proposal.
7. The debtor must have negotiated with the union concerning the proposal in good faith.
8. The union must have refused to accept the proposal with good cause.
9. The balance of the equities must clearly favor rejection of the agreement.

Levine also noted that bankruptcy is not the preferred course for your contract.

 

[Mike W]

Tim,
I was the same meeting in Pittsburgh that you were at in August of 2002. At no time did any officer of District 141 give us a mandate or even suggest that we get the members we represented to vote yes. Our responsibility was to take the information we were given back to our membership so that they could make an informed decision. You tried numerous times to get Randy Canale to give a recommendation on that proposal. When he refused,you got upset. I'm sure you're an intelligent individual who doesn't need someone else's recommendation on something as important as a concession package.

 

[insp89]

Tim,
I was the same meeting in Pittsburgh that you were at in August of 2002. At no time did any officer of District 141 give us a mandate or even suggest that we get the members we represented to vote yes. Our responsibility was to take the information we were given back to our membership so that they could make an informed decision. You tried numerous times to get Randy Canale to give a recommendation on that proposal. When he refused,you got upset. I'm sure you're an intelligent individual who doesn't need someone else's recommendation on something as important as a concession package.

Yes, but WHY did the IAM bring back the SAME proposal AGAIN after it was ALREADY voted down the first time [if they DIDN'T want it overturned] ?????? Please don't say we were all "confused"

 

[700UW]

insp89, Mike W and Tim are 141, fleet service.

I can tell you why it was brought back, one the membership flooded Dave with phone calls and e-mails, saying lets revote as they were afraid of the contract abrogation.

Two, they thought the court would not abrogate it then got a dose of reality after it failed.

Three, the IAM did not want the company to try and hold its own ratification vote, which would end up in the court system for years.

And most of all the IAM knew the court would have abrogated the contract, leaving all the mechanic and related at the company's mercy.

Go back and read what the company was gonna have the judge impose on us.

You have to remember a few things, I don't agree with the second vote, but remember Judge Mitchell on the first day of chapter 11 wiped out $600 million in aircraft debt.

If the IAM M&R did not take concessions, the company was to lose the $500 million in DIP financing as the other unions contracts were contingent on all groups taking concessions, they also would have lost the $240 million equity investment and not be able to obtain the ATSB loan, and TPG which was the first DIP and equity sponsor was going to walk away and take their money because they did not want the labor problems associated along with a contract abrogation.

So it basically boiled down to the lesser of two evils.

 

[Mike W]

UH,
District 141's members only voted once. 141m members voted twice. I don't know why,but maybe you can explain why it failed the first time and passed the second. BTW, I'm a Fleet Service committee chairman. I'm not part of the mechanic and related group.

 

[to much time to quit]

I can tell you why it was brought back, one the membership flooded Dave with phone calls and e-mails, saying lets revote as they were afraid of the contract abrogation.

Rumor has it 98% of the phone calls and emails came directly from the local lodges. No wonder theres so many computers and internet service at 1725clt.

 

[700UW]

That was real intelligent.

 

[to much time to quit]

That was real intelligent.

Lighten up Francis!!!

 

[N628AU]

The IAMAW, both DL141 and 141M received the $1.25 million which was then paid to the financial advisor's, lawyers and to cover the expenses of negotiating concessions, just like AFA, ALPA, TWU and CWA received the same expense reimbursement.

This has been one of my problems. If part of the union dues are to go towards a fund to pay for these negotiations, and since these contracts run through 2008, in the D141M case would this not mean that the IAM does not have to pay for D141M negotiations for something like 13 years (assuming the last contract was negotiated in 1995)? Does this not mean that D141M should have seen a dues rebate or dramatic reduction since the dues set aside for negotiations would not have to be used when originally anticipated?

 

[700UW]

Dues money is used to fund the district operations and contract enforcement, the last contract was agreed to in 1999 (before concessions), the company wanted the contracts opened and paid for the costs associated with it.

I would be damned to use my dues money to negotiate when our contract was no amendable.

628, do you pay car insurance and never have a claim?
Does the insurance company give you a premium rebate?

 

[insp89]

UH,
District 141's members only voted once. 141m members voted twice. I don't know why,but maybe you can explain why it failed the first time and passed the second. BTW, I'm a Fleet Service committee chairman. I'm not part of the mechanic and related group.

UH, The question is Why was there EVEN a SECOND vote HELD ?????? Why not a best two out of three ?????

 

[Mike W]

insp89,
I think 700UW answered your question in an earlier reply.