Boston Hub

[commavia]

Hahaha - thought I was only going to get one laughable quote today, but apparently that wasn't enough.
 
First off, there is a discernible - some might even say "large" - difference between one "legacy" relative to "the others" at BOS.  AA, now combined with USAirways, is considerably larger than either Delta or United at BOS.  I'll leave it to others to quantify this "difference" but it is a larger difference than exists between #1 United, #2 Delta or #3 AA in NYC, or between #1 AA, #2 United or #3 Delta at LAX.
 
Secondly, AA and UA allegedly not being "interested in serving BOS with [their] own metal while DL is" displays just further delusion.  Again - AA is now larger than Delta at BOS, and United is quite large, as well.  Both AA and UA use "[their] own metal" to fly dozens of daily nonstop flights out of BOS.

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA and UA don't operate any year round int'l flights from BOS.

feel free to describe considerably larger any way you want.

based on LOCAL MARKET revenue for the 2nd quarter, AA is larger than B6 by a few percent and 29% larger than DL.
and in the NYC local market for the same period, DL's local market revenue was larger than AA/US by 37%.

AA is larger than DL in BOS, a considerly smaller market, but DL is not as far behind in BOS as AA is in NYC.

BTW, thank you for confirming that AA, DL, and UA are all very close to the same size in LAX.

and based on current schedules for the summer of 2015, DL will offer a very slightly larger amount of seats than UA.

 

[jcw]

Translation:
 
In order to be an important airline in BOS you have to be flying internationally - therefore by definition the only airline that matters in BOS in DL
 
Hail to DL, Hail to DL, Hail to DL
 
The good news - DL partnered with an airline in Europe that continues to struggle to make money in one of the most robust times for many airlines - so their strategy is really working well for them - keep up the good work DL
 
Hail to DL, Hail to DL, Hail to DL

 

[robbedagain]

Josh i was referring to 787 for the middle east airline at bos instead of using 77s

 

[737823]

Josh i was referring to 787 for the middle east airline at bos instead of using 77s

Robbed I think if you look at the strategies and fleets the ME carriers are using their models require lots of passenger volume. While the 787 opens up new gateways for them I think if you look at their order books the vast majority of their 787 orders are for the larger -9 and -10 although I believe Qatar has some -8s in their fleet.

Not sure about Qatar or Etihad coming here Massport just released traffic and EK had a 60% load factor last month. Yes October may be a slow period but I think BOS has so much new capacity the others may wait a few more years.

Personally I'd much rather see KE resume ICN, SN add BRU and AM resume MEX as I have no interest flying EY/EY/QR or their destinations.

Josh

 

[robbedagain]

Back in 99 n 00 KE had a 4 time weekly 744 BOS to ICN w stops in JFK n ANC i do believe DL ground handle them but ill ask my dad as he was ops mgr at the time

 

[topDawg]

They have line maintenance not TechOps, TechOps is ATL.

 TechOps is anywhere Delta has any kind of in-house maintenance. The Technical Operations center, TOC or JetBase is the maintenance base in Atlanta. TechOps is the line, TOC and the MSP base. TechOps also has line hangars in DTW, BOS, SLC, CVG, SEA and uses the high bay hangar at the old western/delta hangar complex in LA off and on. (as well as the TWA hangar for HAL 332 checks)   
 

Maybe southwind or topdawg (current active DL employees) will weigh in but TechOps is DLs maintenance division both line and overhaul.

Josh

 
 you are correct. 
 TechOps/Technical Operations is Delta's maintenance dept. Most people confuse it with the TOC in Atlanta though.  

 

[737823]

They have line maintenance not TechOps, TechOps is ATL.

  

Owned!

TechOps is anywhere Delta has any kind of in-house maintenance. The Technical Operations center, TOC or JetBase is the maintenance base in Atlanta. TechOps is the line, TOC and the MSP base. TechOps also has line hangars in DTW, BOS, SLC, CVG, SEA and uses the high bay hangar at the old western/delta hangar complex in LA off and on. (as well as the TWA hangar for HAL 332 checks)   
 

 
 you are correct. 
 TechOps/Technical Operations is Delta's maintenance dept. Most people confuse it with the TOC in Atlanta though.

Josh

 

[737823]

Dawg do you mean to suggest that DL doesn't have AMTs at JFK? Also pretty sure they do/did have them at Bradley, however the ramp is vendored out.

Josh

 

[topDawg]

Dawg do you mean to suggest that DL doesn't have AMTs at JFK? Also pretty sure they do/did have them at Bradley, however the ramp is vendored out.

Josh

Delta has a line station at JFK. No hangar. BOS is the de facto JFK hangar. 
 
If Delta needs a hangar at JFK they generally use the AA hangar or the old Pan Am/United hangar. (not sure if its still United's or not) 

 

[WorldTraveler]

thank you, dawg, for providing the final confirmation about what Tech Ops is.

Robbed I think if you look at the strategies and fleets the ME carriers are using their models require lots of passenger volume. While the 787 opens up new gateways for them I think if you look at their order books the vast majority of their 787 orders are for the larger -9 and -10 although I believe Qatar has some -8s in their fleet.

Not sure about Qatar or Etihad coming here Massport just released traffic and EK had a 60% load factor last month. Yes October may be a slow period but I think BOS has so much new capacity the others may wait a few more years.

Personally I'd much rather see KE resume ICN, SN add BRU and AM resume MEX as I have no interest flying EY/EY/QR or their destinations.

Josh

and thank you, Josh, for getting it spot on regarding the ME3. let's also not forget that the ME3 is really the ME4 to include Turkish since they have similar strategies.

they are all in high growth mode and often show up in the same locations within months of each other because they can't stand if one gets a market advantage the others don't have.

and they all (TK somewhat less so) maximize their use of weak Middle East labor laws which allows them to maintain much lower labor costs than western carriers.

it is beyond ironic that DL, which is portrayed here as so labor unfriendly on here, is the western carrier that has been most aggressive in fighting against the ME3 and in having no business dealings with them - as DL protects more jobs for its own employees.

it is no surprise that AZ has had to turn to the ME in order to get a lifeline after being unable to compete in Europe or on int'l routes and is now forced to allow a foreign carrier with very different values and priorities to take control.

AA has the greatest amount of commercial dealings with the ME3 of any US airline; time will tell how much impact those partnershps will have on AA's ability to serve its own markets but you can bet that the ME3 are more than capable of pulling traffic out of DFW to Asia as well as AA can on its own metal or via LHR.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

it is beyond ironic that DL, which is portrayed here as so labor unfriendly on here, is the western carrier that has been most aggressive in fighting against the ME3 and in having no business dealings with them - as DL protects more jobs for its own employees.

AA has the greatest amount of commercial dealings with the ME3 of any US airline; time will tell how much impact those partnershps will have on AA's ability to serve its own markets but you can bet that the ME3 are more than capable of pulling traffic out of DFW to Asia as well as AA can on its own metal or via LHR.

 
DL is definitely not leading the fight between the western carriers and the ME3.
 
I guess you've never heard of the shenanigans between Air Canada + gov of Canada vs Emirates + UAE.  Do some reading before making grandiose statements about DL being the champion defending airline workers.
 
With respect to partnerships & commercial dealings:  DL is not a saint here either.  I believe that Etihad owns 49% of AZ but only 29% of AB.  Etihad also code-shares with KL and KE and VA.
 
I think the ME3 are a bigger threat to US carrier hubs along the east coast, or eastern half of the country (and definitely to EU-based carriers).  DFW-to-Asia via the Middle East?  Seriously?

 

[WorldTraveler]

with all due respect, DL is a lot larger than Air Canada and the US market is far larger than Canada.

Air Canada is absolutely terrified about what will happen if the ME3 have free reign in Canada.

if it makes you feel better, I'll restrict my statement to US carriers.

and DL has no control over the business relationships that AF or AZ enter into unless they overlap with what DL does.

that is precisely why the VS deal is more significantly in controlling VS' future than what exists with AF/KL and AZ>

and to be honest with you, I have no idea of whether AF can turn itself around.

DFW is simply not as large of an int'l market as two of DL's interior US hubs (ATL and DTW).

In terms of market size DFW is the 12th largest int’l market in the US for US carriers behind JFK, SFO, EWR, LAX, ORD, MIA, IAH, ATL, IAD, BOS, and DTW.

The ME3 do not serve ATL, DTW, or MSP.

in contrast, all 3 serve or will serve ORD and DFW and they have their foot in the door to MIA.

 

[737823]

WT I imagine they will eventually enter ATL and DTW, probably not MSP anytime soon but given the large Indian population (ATL) and Arabs (DTW) they could probably make those markets work.

As for not cooperating with ME3 carriers I imagine DL cargo-much like AA cargo-interlines large volumes between their metal. Airlines often compete with certain carriers for the larger passenger franchise but often partner with those same airlines for the cargo franchise.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

you have to consider whether those populations are enough to support a longhaul int'l flight, esp. since DL already serves DXB.

as for India, I haven't seen anything official but it appears DL is pulling its own metal out of India. A look at flightaware and the flight track shows the path that US carriers must take between Europe and India because of political and security realities both in Eastern Europe/Central Asia and the Middle East. DL's flight time between AMS and BOM has increased by 60-80 minutes over the past few months.

Not sure of the plans but I would guess that KL will operate the route. I flew AF to India several months ago and they took routes that US carriers would not.

as for cargo, maybe DL cooperates with the ME3 but I'm not sure how much cargo DL needs to send to int'l locations served by the ME3 that aren't also served by Skyteam partners.

your point is valid but I don't see much cargo interlining with the ME3 although there is passenger interlining that is part of normal industry protocols where DL has agreements.